[Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms

Sun Mar 10 19:55:19 GMT 2013

We could use the info tag to provide a one line help, including a link to a wiki page AND we could provide for the same link to the wiki page from the thumbnail area.

We could even automate it. We have a fixed wiki. (Community website), and a fixed link (page name).

Tom

Kemp Johnathan <johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com> schreef:

>What I was thinking requires to things to be available
>
>1. A url within the wiki that takes you to a specific page (which
>appears
>possible from the link you have provided)
>2. A means in Xerte / XOT to link to that specific page (e.g. in the
>way I
>was using the info tag to link to a specific page)
>
>There are two issues at present with using the info tag
>a) It can result in some of the xwd fields failing to be displayed
>b) It is only available to the Author after they have added the page
>type,
>since the link is from the xwd form.
>
>I was thinking that as the wiki expands any contents page that listed
>all
>the pages could get very long. So for an author a way of going directly
>from Xerte / XOT to a specific page type's wiki entry could be very
>user
>friendly and helpful.
>
>At present I think we may have a generic help link that could take you
>to
>the wiki home page, or we can use the info tag with its current
>drawbacks.
>
>Kind regards
>
>Johnathan
>
>On 10 March 2013 17:47, Tom Reijnders <reijnders at tor.nl> wrote:
>
>>  You can, that's no problem at all:
>>
>> http://www.xerte.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Template_walkthrough
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> Op 10-3-2013 18:10, Kemp Johnathan schreef:
>>
>> It would be nice if there was a way of accessing the wiki page about
>a
>> specific Xerte / XOT page type, perhaps before having added that page
>type
>> to your project. This could then help both with selecting the page
>type to
>> use as well as assisting the author in the using  of that page.
>>
>>  This is in contrast to just having a generic link to the wiki home
>page.
>>
>>  Kind regards
>>
>>  Johnathan
>>
>> On 8 March 2013 13:55, Smith, John <J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>  A wiki…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Smith
>>>
>>> Learning Technologist
>>>
>>> School of Health & Life Sciences
>>>
>>> Glasgow Caledonian University
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Julian
>Tenney
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 08, 2013 1:48 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
>>> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don’t much like the idea of separate files (pdfs / docs etc) I
>think it
>>> would be better as a central resource on a web site, maybe the
>community
>>> site?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
>>>
>mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Kemp Johnathan
>>> *Sent:* 06 March 2013 18:57
>>> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
>>> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suppose one alternative would be to set up a wiki, but I am not
>sure
>>> this is the best approach for help documents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One thought that has just sprung to mind - what about using an ebook
>>> editor? I know next to nothing about them but it would seem a
>possibly
>>> logical platform to publish to. I am not sure if this would be the
>right
>>> approach if we only want to create a set of individual files that
>are each
>>> a single publication?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I did a quick google and found an open source wysiwyg editor called
>>> sigil. It looks quite powerful, but it appears designed to pull
>together
>>> large numbers of separate files into a single document.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know if there is anyone on the list who is familiar with
>this
>>> stuff and could pass a more informed opinion?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have to admit, the one thing that concerns me with using Open
>Office is
>>> that someone will go and open up the file in Word and bugger up its
>>> formatting :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What concerns me about not using Open Office is the possible lack of
>a
>>> familiar, versatile, and easy to use interface for creating the
>documents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> JK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 March 2013 18:25, Dave Burnett <d_b_burnett at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just my personal preference.
>>>
>>> Static documents usually lead to version control nightmares.
>>>
>>> I still believe in the Java "write once, deliver everywhere"
>fantasy.
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 18:20:51 +0000
>>> From: johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com
>>> To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>>
>>> Advantage of pdf?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A single file that contains text and graphics and will maintain its
>>> format when printed out (some people still like to print things
>out).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My approach so far has been to author the files in Open Office which
>will
>>> export to pdf. This provides a master file (the Open Office odt)
>file that
>>> is editable, and the pdf export of the odt file that can be
>published for
>>> Author usage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So whilst at present the file the Author uses is pdf, this is
>generated
>>> from a single, easily edited odt file. Open Office is free, open
>source,
>>> and available in many languages.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with the idea of allowing those with svn access to edit the
>help
>>> files. The current approach fully facilitates that.
>>>
>>> Folks with svn access can edit (or make a copy and translate) the
>odt
>>> file and then generate a new pdf file for publication.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure of the benefit of trying to edit the help documents in
>a
>>> Xerte app. Why try to create a cut down word processor in Xerte, if
>there
>>> is already a fully featured one available for free?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only downside I see is that each help file consists of two files
>>> (rather than one) - the odt source file and the published public
>accessed
>>> pdf file. But this has upsides as well. The odt help file can be
>edited
>>> without affecting the published pdf file, which can be re-published
>once
>>> the editing / updating is completed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just my take on things
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Johnathan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 March 2013 12:35, Dave Burnett <d_b_burnett at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Advantage of pdf?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would bet we get a lot more contribution if it's dynamic.
>>>
>>> Maybe something editable in a Xerte app?
>>>
>>> Folks with svn access can edit?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk
>>> > To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>>> > Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:09:21 +0000
>>>
>>>
>>> > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> >
>>> > Sure Tom, I suppose an alternative would be to funnel everything
>>> through help/index.php?language=XX&file=YYY and let it decide which
>to
>>> serve up...
>>> >
>>> > I'm having to do similar with the api...
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > John Smith
>>> > Learning Technologist
>>> > School of Health & Life Sciences
>>> > Glasgow Caledonian University
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:05 AM
>>> > To: For Xerte technical developers
>>> > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> >
>>> > It's not too much work to fall back to English if we need to,
>>> >
>>> > So have a help/<language code> for the help forlder location like
>we
>>> have wizard/<language code> now.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The thing I have against mod_rewrites is that it's webserver
>specific.
>>> >
>>> > So, now we only have to agree on the help file format. .pdf is
>fine
>>> with me...
>>> >
>>> > Tom
>>> >
>>> > Citeren "Smith, John" <J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>:
>>> >
>>> > > Why not just append the language code to the URL (new website)
>and mod
>>> > > rewrite the url. If there is a language file that matches send
>that,
>>> > > otherwise send the English one...
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Regards,
>>> > >
>>> > > John Smith
>>> > > Learning Technologist
>>> > > School of Health & Life Sciences
>>> > > Glasgow Caledonian University
>>> > >
>>> > > From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>>> > > [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
>>> > > Julian Tenney
>>> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:38 AM
>>> > > To: For Xerte technical developers
>>> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> > >
>>> > > What about languages? You might want help in several languages.
>But
>>> > > we can cope with multi lingual wizards, so why not multi lingual
>help?
>>> > >
>>> > > The form is a bit of a pain because now we have advanced /
>language
>>> > > options, redrawing the form is a bit of a pain, so thinking
>>> > > differently might be a good idea.
>>> > >
>>> > > From:
>>> > > xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > > Sent: 06 March 2013 10:02
>>> > > To: For Xerte technical developers
>>> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> > >
>>> > > Hi Folks,
>>> > >
>>> > > What I would like to be able to achieve is a means of providing
>a
>>> > > link to a pdf file that the author can access to provide
>additional
>>> > > information to support the use of the page type. My original
>need
>>> > > was to support the connector pages and the inventory page with
>more
>>> > > information about how the page worked and how, in the case of
>>> > > connector pages they could be used in conjunction with other
>pages.
>>> > > However the help file could provide other stuff such as examples
>of
>>> > > use or pedagogical information.
>>> > >
>>> > > How that link is made available to the author I don't have a
>strong
>>> > > view on. It just seemed that the <info> tag already provided the
>>> > > functionality (except for this frustrating glitch). If resolving
>the
>>> > > glitch was a simple matter then the <info> tag might be a
>convenient
>>> > > way of doing this without involving much time input. If however
>the
>>> > > glitch is difficult to pin down then a different approach might
>be
>>> > > appropriate.
>>> > >
>>> > > By putting the link in the xwd file it keeps everything about
>the
>>> > > page in one place. However it does have the disadvantage of
>making
>>> > > it difficult to change the location of the help files.
>>> > >
>>> > > Perhaps an approach that assumed the help file would use the
>same
>>> > > stem as the model file but have a pdf extension (e.g. quiz.rlm
>and
>>> > > quiz.pdf), would allow a Xerte or XOT project to define a single
>>> > > folder location for all the help files. The specific help file
>for a
>>> > > page type would then be accessed by combining the single folder
>>> > > address with the model name and a pdf extension.
>>> > >
>>> > > This would allow help files to be either located on a remote
>server
>>> > > or on a local server, or even in a desktop Xerte installation
>folder
>>> > > e.g. Xerte\pages\help\. It would also make it easier to change
>the
>>> > > locations of the help files as there would be only one path to
>change.
>>> > >
>>> > > Kind regards
>>> > >
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > >
>>> > > On 6 March 2013 07:50, Julian Tenney
>>> > >
><Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk
>>> >>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > > Maybe we should tackle this differently: rather than trying to
>>> > > display the <info> on the form, why not pop it up in a message
>or
>>> > > show it somewhere else?
>>> > >
>>> > > From:
>>> > > xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > > Sent: 05 March 2013 17:53
>>> > > To: For Xerte technical developers
>>> > >
>>> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> > >
>>> > > The most recent version of the desktop would ensure you have the
>>> > > latest version of wizard.swf, but if you can see the Show
>Language
>>> > > Options I think that should be enough to demonstrate the issue.
>>> > >
>>> > > The "here is the help" text is the text contained in the info
>tag.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you click in the Show Language Options check box you will see
>>> > > that some additional fields are displayed in the form but that
>there
>>> > > is an expanse of blank grey form before the "here is the help"
>text
>>> > > is displayed.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you mouse over the grey area above the "here is the help"
>text
>>> > > you will see the mouse pointer change as it hovers over where
>the
>>> > > text entry boxes for the hidden language options are positioned.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you click on the Quiz2 page to open its xwd form the effect
>is
>>> > > clear as none of the fields are flagged as language options so
>as
>>> > > soon as the form opens you see that the display of labels and
>fields
>>> > > ends abruptly and then there is again the grey expanse of blank
>form
>>> > > before the "here is the help" text is displayed. You have
>noticed,
>>> > > in your second post that the entry below "single answer wrong"
>is
>>> > > cut short vertically. There are also more fields below this
>which
>>> > > are not displaying at all.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you edit the quiz.xwd file in the page002 folder to remove
>the
>>> > > "info" tag then all the fields defined in the form are displayed
>>> > > correctly. So it is the "info" tag that is causing the display
>issue.
>>> > >
>>> > > Kind regards
>>> > >
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > >
>>> > > On 5 March 2013 10:43, Dave Burnett
>>> > > <d_b_burnett at hotmail.com<mailto:d_b_burnett at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>> > > What version of desktop is required?
>>> > > The only language related object I have showing is "Show
>Language
>>> > > Options" in the bottom bar.
>>> > >
>>> > > (I do see "Here is the help" in blue near the bottom).
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ________________________________
>>> > > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:23:23 +0000
>>> > > From:
>johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com<mailto:johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com>
>>> > > To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
>>> xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
>>> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> > >
>>> > > If you include the info tag in an xwd form it can result in the
>none
>>> > > display of the last entries in the form.
>>> > >
>>> > > The info tag displays at the bottom of the form with a blank
>area of
>>> > > form above it where the missing fields and field labels should
>be
>>> > > displayed.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you move the mouse pointer over the blank area of the form
>then
>>> > > the mouse pointer will change indicating that the fields are
>there -
>>> > > you just can't see them.
>>> > >
>>> > > The easiest way to explain what is happening is for you to see
>it
>>> > > for yourself.
>>> > >
>>> > > I have attached a simple demo. The demo is a standard Xerte
>project
>>> > > (not a "Pages" type project - I have manually set up the xwd
>links
>>> > > for the pages) in which I have set up two copies of the Quiz
>page.
>>> > >
>>> > > 1. Open this project in Xerte
>>> > > 2. Double click on the Quiz page to open the xwd form
>>> > > 3. Click on the language tab to display the language fields
>>> > > 4. Scroll down the form - you will see the blank area where the
>>> > > hidden language fields should appear and the blue info comment
>at
>>> > > the bottom.
>>> > > 5. The language tag is not significant to this issue.
>>> > > 6. Double click on the Quiz2 page, you will see the same effect
>>> > > without the use of the language tag (I deleted them from this
>pages
>>> > > xwd file)
>>> > > I don't know if the cause is to do with layers or visibility
>>> > > settings. I don't know what happens when the info tag is
>actioned in
>>> > > the code.
>>> > >
>>> > > I hope this makes the effect clear (if not the cause :-( )
>>> > >
>>> > > Kind regards
>>> > >
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On 5 March 2013 09:40, Julian Tenney
>>> > >
><Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk
>>> >>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > What's the problem in a nutshell?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > From:
>>> > > xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
>>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > > Sent: 04 March 2013 22:18
>>> > > To: Xerte Developers Discussion List
>>> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] use of info tag in xwd forms
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On the 4th December I posted to the developer list an issue with
>the
>>> > > xwd forms relating to the use of the "info" tag.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > The inclusion of an info tag in the xwd form can result in space
>>> > > being allocated above the info tag for the display of the last
>few
>>> > > properties in the xwd form definition, but the properties are
>not
>>> > > visible in the form. You can however confirm their "presence" as
>the
>>> > > mouse pointer responds to them if moved over the input fields.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > You can test this out in Xerte (or XOT) by creating a page using
>one
>>> > > of the Connector page types. The info tag has been used in these
>>> > > pages to link to a pdf help file that is hosted on the Xerte
>>> > > community web site, but the "language" flagged form properties
>are
>>> > > no longer all editable, due to the presence of the info tag.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > This is a pity as the info tag could be used to provide a link
>to an
>>> > > external document that gives the Author useful additional
>>> > > information to assist them in making the best use of that page
>type.
>>> > > e.g.
>>> > >
>>> > > * Information about what the page is designed to do
>>> > >
>>> > > * Instructions on what the properties in the form are to
>>> > > help in completing the form created by the xwd file;
>>> > >
>>> > > * examples of actual uses of that page type in real projects.
>>> > >
>>> > > * examples of combining this page type with other page types
>>> > > to achieve a particular pedagogical approach
>>> > >
>>> > > * guidance as to how accessible the page is with respect to
>>> > > particular types of user, or what features the page has as
>optional
>>> > > properties to provide additional accessibility
>>> > >
>>> > > However at present if the "info" tag is used then the ability to
>>> > > edit the language flagged elements of the page is compromised.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Is this something that is intended to be addressed before the
>next
>>> > > release of Xerte / XOT?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Sorry to be a nuisance, but it seems such a potentially useful
>>> > > feature it seems a shame not to be able to use it.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Kind regards
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Johnathan
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
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