[Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages

Fri Sep 14 09:50:53 BST 2012

 Sometimes a page is easy to use once you know how it works, it is just the
lack of some basic information to get you started that causes initial
difficulty

As soon as the community website is really up and running, we have a
central place to put the documentation on.

I have nothing against putting documentation on the community web site,
however would it be useful to have a button on the xwd form for a page that
on clicking would open a help file. The help file could be stored in a
"Docs" folder with subfolders for each language (the same way the wizards
work) and the name of the file would match the name used for the .rlm file
for the page. Perhaps like the language and advanced check boxes the button
would only be enabled if the page had a help file defined.

Not sure what would be the best format for the file. PDF springs to mind
but I am thinking that it might be something, if  implemented, that Tom
might want to include in his translation database so as to simplify the
creation of translations of the help files into other languages.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 14 September 2012 08:30, Tom Reijnders <reijnders at tor.nl> wrote:

>  I think that we could make excellent use here of the fact that we have
> modularized everything. Everything is in place to give the administrator
> the option of creating different sets of pages by enabling or disabling
> pages.
>
> In this way, it should also be possible to create a set, suitable for say,
> dyslectic students, and another set to be used for visually handicapped
> students.
>
> Than, an institution can also make available a set for experienced users,
> and for novices.
>
> All the basic manipulation code is available (in PHP). It needs some
> thought, on how to offer this in the management page or elsewhere.
>
> As soon as the community website is really up and running, we have a
> central place to put the documentation on.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
> Op 13-9-2012 13:23, Kemp Johnathan schreef:
>
> Every time I almost finish my response someone posts another message!
>
>  There is documentation on all of the connector pages available as pdf
> files. The documentation on the scenario connector includes a full worked
> example of a two page project that implements the Fox, Goat, Grain - farmer
> to get them across the river problem where the Fox eats the Goat if you
> leave them alone and the Goat eats the grain if left with the grain.
>
>  Unfortunately the only way these have currently been disseminated is by
> including them in the help folder of the desktop Xerte installation. So it
> is no wonder that XOT users may think that no documentation is available.
>
>  There are other pages in Xerte / XOT that take a little bit of
> understanding, but have been included all the same e.g. Mapstraction,
> Interactive Diagram (custom hotspots). Personally I am amazed that anyone
> has been able to make use of the Interactive Diagram page without getting
> some help to understand how it works, since the method of adding hotspots
> is atypical to all the other XOT pages. Which does not mean it is a bad
> page. Just that the power and flexibility offered by the page inevitably
> comes at the price of a little more effort on the part of the author.
>
>  When I demonstrated the prototype of the scenario page at the meeting
> last year there was great interest in the page.
>
>  If I recall correctly Julian said that what it now needed was a good
> example of it being used.
>
>  From a technical perspective the Scenario page is only displaying text,
> the occasional graphic and sound file. There is no drag and drop, no
> videos, nothing that I would have thought would present a display problem
> in html.
>
>  I agree that there are some issues regarding navigation that need
> consideration, but I think they are actually relatively straightforward and
> can easily be resolved. It is worth remembering that learners coming to XOT
> projects for the first time may actually be surprised by the linear back
> button, since their prior web experience is likely to be the historic back
> button of Internet Explorer or Firefox. Yet they soon adjust to XOTs
> navigation.
>
>  I can understand some learners feeling uncomfortable about pages being
> hidden from them. But this is all about paradigms. It would seem bizarre to
> consider a book that prevented you from accessing some of its pages. Then
> programmed learning books came along that set you tasks and based on your
> response directed you to the appropriate next section of the book. They are
> not reference works but structured learning experiences. Look at the
> success that Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone had with the Fighting
> Fantasy books. My late sister used to read them to my (now 92 year old)
> Mother and they had no problem navigating the books.
>
>  We will have a sample of XOT authors available in October maybe we
> should seek there views regarding
>
>    - XOT may have been originally designed around purely linear projects
>    but will all XOT users want to remain constrained by that?
>    - If we provide an option for a historic back button how can we do
>    this in a way that will not confuse learners using XOT projects?
>    - One of XOT's strengths is its ease of use and simplicity. However
>    there is a trade off between simplicity and power / flexibility (for want
>    of a better term). Should we exclude new pages that offer new features but
>    at a cost of being more complicated to use. If we include them should they
>    be identified in some way as being "advanced" or some other appropriate
>    descriptor.
>
> I agree with Julian that the HTML5 project is a good time be thinking of
> the future of XOT for years ahead. I can't help feeling that there needs to
> be some kind of accommodation that retains XOT as a simple to use
> application to enable it to continue gaining new users with a gentle
> learning curve but it also needs to be able to grow so that experienced
> users who are ready to be able to do even more with XOT are not frustrated
> by a lack of opportunity.
>
>  The good thing is that we all care about Xerte and XOT else we wouldn't
> all be putting so much time and effort into it :-)
>
>  Kind regards
>
>  Johnathan
>
> On 13 September 2012 12:03, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>wrote:
>
>> I get all that, but I am still not entirely reassured, and uneasy about
>> the navigation problems that we know exist.
>>
>> If people have to ask us why the back button did something it did we have
>> failed. That is not a question we should ever face, and if avoiding that
>> question means not doing something, I'm prepared to not do it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
>> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
>> Sent: 13 September 2012 11:57
>> To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages
>>
>> Rather than just what Toolkits is intended to be I'd say it's also about
>> what users would like it to be and also sometimes they don't appreciate the
>> latter until they see it.
>>
>> In my experience of supporting a wide range of XOT users (who aren't
>> Xerte Desktop users) they do want and would value some of the functionality
>> the connectors provide. This isn't just about navigation to other pages and
>> hiding linear navigation. For instance I think the hotspot image connector
>> will be extremely popular and can be put to good use without any navigation
>> to other pages although it obviously provides that if required.
>>
>> Also in terms of FWS lots of people (especially in FE) have often created
>> a similar kind of non linear navigation in PowerPoint e.g. disabling the
>> usual slideshow navigation and adding hyperlinks and action buttons etc.
>>
>> Like other and long standing page types in XOT a lot comes down to the
>> learning design and how it's conceived and applied and many of those
>> existing page types can be used badly as well as effectively - I'm sure
>> we've also seen examples of each. Likewise there are desired solutions that
>> haven't previously been available and in my experience users who want a bit
>> more than FWS - e.g. experienced XOT user simple! ;-)
>>
>> Following the two days in October what I'd be keen to do is to document
>> and demonstrate how those responsible for an XOT installation can choose
>> what page types to enable/disable rather than removing that choice from the
>> download. There are other long standing page types that are rarely used by
>> some individuals/organisations and despite being FWS still cause confusion
>> and support requirements.
>>
>> HTH
>> Ron
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
>> Sent: 13 September 2012 11:25
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages
>>
>> I think the connector pages (except scenario) pretty much are FWS to set
>> up but I'd agree that from the end user point of view it could be confusing
>> to have sections hidden. I know that when learning stuff myself I would
>> prefer to be able to have all the information available to me and to choose
>> myself whether to skip sections rather than have it forced on me because of
>> a question I answered at some point. Maybe it does just come down to
>> whether this is what Toolkits is intended to be and what people expect from
>> a Toolkits project they're viewing.
>> ________________________________________
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney [
>> Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk]
>> Sent: 13 September 2012 10:58
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages
>>
>> OK. Or we get some sort of documentation produced pronto.
>>
>> I am quite worried about connectors in general. I do understand the point
>> of them. I just don't think toolkits is the right place for them, and I
>> think we are trying to force a linear piece of content to do something it
>> was never intended to do by hiding pages from menus, and creating new
>> navigation systems, and allowing people to create bad stuff, and I don't
>> want to be forced to do this bad stuff in the HTML5 version to achieve
>> parity with the existing set of models, as the alternative is that existing
>> content won't automatically port over to the new runtime.
>>
>> Personally I'd rather scrap them, put it down to experience, and later,
>> when we have the HTML5 stuff working properly, we can look again at the
>> problem.
>>
>> The FWS principle has got us a long way, I'm very wary of losing that,
>> and I feel like a lone voice in keeping on speaking up for it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
>> Sent: 13 September 2012 10:44
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages
>>
>> If it helps, it was specifically the Scenario Connector that she (and I)
>> was confused about. She had tried the other connectors and understood how
>> they worked ________________________________________
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney [
>> Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk]
>> Sent: 13 September 2012 10:39
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] FW: Connector pages
>>
>> See below from Fay, who is manning a stand at ALT-C.
>>
>> I'm proposing we take the connectors out of the current released version,
>> before any more of the genie gets out of the bottle. We have unresolved
>> issues with the navigation system to figure out, and there is insufficient
>> documentation regarding them to enable users to have a good time with them.
>>
>> If people want to build more complex things, they can use the standalone
>> version. I don't know if connectors make sense in the new HTML5 stuff.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cross Fay
>> Sent: 13 September 2012 10:30
>> To: Tenney Julian
>> Subject: Connector pages
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> Just had an embarrassing moment on the stand... Someone came over to say
>> that they have just installed toolkits and she had been looking at the
>> Scenario Connector page and wanted help trying to understand it. I said I
>> hadn't used it myself but would try to work it out - it turns out I have no
>> idea what the hell goes on in it, how do you get the scores to link to the
>> actions? It desperately needs more instructions as if I can't make sense of
>> it, being pretty familiar with Toolkits, then not many pople will! I did
>> say that it was developed by someone in the Xerte Community so that's why I
>> wasn't too sure about it.
>>
>> See you in a couple of weeks
>> Fay
>>
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>
>
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> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Xerte-dev mailing listXerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.ukhttp://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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> --
> --
>
> Tom Reijnders
> TOR Informatica
> Chopinlaan 27
> 5242HM Rosmalen
> Tel: 073 5226191
> Fax: 073 5226196
>
>
>
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> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
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> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
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