<div>
Sometimes a page is easy to use once you know how it works, it is just the lack of some basic information to get you started that causes initial difficulty
<font color="#3366ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#3366ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#3366ff">As soon as the community website is really up and running, we have a central place to put the documentation on.</font><br>
</div><div><br></div><div>I have nothing against putting documentation on the community web site, however would it be useful to have a button on the xwd form for a page that on clicking would open a help file. The help file could be stored in a "Docs" folder with subfolders for each language (the same way the wizards work) and the name of the file would match the name used for the .rlm file for the page. Perhaps like the language and advanced check boxes the button would only be enabled if the page had a help file defined.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Not sure what would be the best format for the file. PDF springs to mind but I am thinking that it might be something, if implemented, that Tom might want to include in his translation database so as to simplify the creation of translations of the help files into other languages. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Kind regards</div><div><br></div><div>Johnathan</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 14 September 2012 08:30, Tom Reijnders <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:reijnders@tor.nl" target="_blank">reijnders@tor.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
I think that we could make excellent use here of the fact that we
have modularized everything. Everything is in place to give the
administrator the option of creating different sets of pages by
enabling or disabling pages.<br>
<br>
In this way, it should also be possible to create a set, suitable
for say, dyslectic students, and another set to be used for visually
handicapped students.<br>
<br>
Than, an institution can also make available a set for experienced
users, and for novices.<br>
<br>
All the basic manipulation code is available (in PHP). It needs some
thought, on how to offer this in the management page or elsewhere.<br>
<br>
As soon as the community website is really up and running, we have a
central place to put the documentation on.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Tom<br>
<br>
<div>Op 13-9-2012 13:23, Kemp Johnathan
schreef:<br>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Every time I almost finish my response someone posts another
message!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>There is documentation on all of the connector pages
available as pdf files. The documentation on the scenario
connector includes a full worked example of a two page project
that implements the Fox, Goat, Grain - farmer to get them
across the river problem where the Fox eats the Goat if you
leave them alone and the Goat eats the grain if left with the
grain.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unfortunately the only way these have currently been
disseminated is by including them in the help folder of the
desktop Xerte installation. So it is no wonder that XOT users
may think that no documentation is available.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are other pages in Xerte / XOT that take a little bit
of understanding, but have been included all the same e.g.
Mapstraction, Interactive Diagram (custom hotspots).
Personally I am amazed that anyone has been able to make use
of the Interactive Diagram page without getting some help to
understand how it works, since the method of adding hotspots
is atypical to all the other XOT pages. Which does not mean it
is a bad page. Just that the power and flexibility offered by
the page inevitably comes at the price of a little more effort
on the part of the author.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I demonstrated the prototype of the scenario page at
the meeting last year there was great interest in the page.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If I recall correctly Julian said that what it now needed
was a good example of it being used.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>From a technical perspective the Scenario page is only
displaying text, the occasional graphic and sound file. There
is no drag and drop, no videos, nothing that I would have
thought would present a display problem in html.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree that there are some issues regarding navigation
that need consideration, but I think they are actually
relatively straightforward and can easily be resolved. It is
worth remembering that learners coming to XOT projects for the
first time may actually be surprised by the linear back
button, since their prior web experience is likely to be the
historic back button of Internet Explorer or Firefox. Yet they
soon adjust to XOTs navigation.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I can understand some learners feeling uncomfortable about
pages being hidden from them. But this is all about paradigms.
It would seem bizarre to consider a book that prevented you
from accessing some of its pages. Then programmed learning
books came along that set you tasks and based on your response
directed you to the appropriate next section of the book. They
are not reference works but structured learning experiences.
Look at the success that Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone had
with the Fighting Fantasy books. My late sister used to read
them to my (now 92 year old) Mother and they had no problem
navigating the books.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will have a sample of XOT authors available in October
maybe we should seek there views regarding</div>
<ul>
<li>
XOT may have been originally designed around purely linear
projects but will all XOT users want to remain constrained
by that?
</li>
<li>If we provide an option for a historic back button how can
we do this in a way that will not confuse learners using XOT
projects? </li>
<li>One of XOT's strengths is its ease of use and simplicity.
However there is a trade off between simplicity and power /
flexibility (for want of a better term). Should we exclude
new pages that offer new features but at a cost of being
more complicated to use. If we include them should they be
identified in some way as being "advanced" or some other
appropriate descriptor.</li>
</ul>
<div>I agree with Julian that the HTML5 project is a good time
be thinking of the future of XOT for years ahead. I can't help
feeling that there needs to be some kind of accommodation that
retains XOT as a simple to use application to enable it to
continue gaining new users with a gentle learning curve but it
also needs to be able to grow so that experienced users who
are ready to be able to do even more with XOT are not
frustrated by a lack of opportunity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The good thing is that we all care about Xerte and XOT else
we wouldn't all be putting so much time and effort into it :-)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kind regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Johnathan</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 September 2012 12:03, Julian Tenney
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I get all that, but I am still not entirely reassured, and
uneasy about the navigation problems that we know exist.<br>
<br>
If people have to ask us why the back button did something it
did we have failed. That is not a question we should ever
face, and if avoiding that question means not doing something,
I'm prepared to not do it.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell<br>
Sent: 13 September 2012 11:57<br>
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'<br>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages<br>
<br>
Rather than just what Toolkits is intended to be I'd say
it's also about what users would like it to be and also
sometimes they don't appreciate the latter until they see
it.<br>
<br>
In my experience of supporting a wide range of XOT users
(who aren't Xerte Desktop users) they do want and would
value some of the functionality the connectors provide.
This isn't just about navigation to other pages and hiding
linear navigation. For instance I think the hotspot image
connector will be extremely popular and can be put to good
use without any navigation to other pages although it
obviously provides that if required.<br>
<br>
Also in terms of FWS lots of people (especially in FE)
have often created a similar kind of non linear navigation
in PowerPoint e.g. disabling the usual slideshow
navigation and adding hyperlinks and action buttons etc.<br>
<br>
Like other and long standing page types in XOT a lot comes
down to the learning design and how it's conceived and
applied and many of those existing page types can be used
badly as well as effectively - I'm sure we've also seen
examples of each. Likewise there are desired solutions
that haven't previously been available and in my
experience users who want a bit more than FWS - e.g.
experienced XOT user simple! ;-)<br>
<br>
Following the two days in October what I'd be keen to do
is to document and demonstrate how those responsible for
an XOT installation can choose what page types to
enable/disable rather than removing that choice from the
download. There are other long standing page types that
are rarely used by some individuals/organisations and
despite being FWS still cause confusion and support
requirements.<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>]
On Behalf Of Fay Cross<br>
Sent: 13 September 2012 11:25<br>
To: For Xerte technical developers<br>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages<br>
<br>
I think the connector pages (except scenario) pretty much
are FWS to set up but I'd agree that from the end user
point of view it could be confusing to have sections
hidden. I know that when learning stuff myself I would
prefer to be able to have all the information available to
me and to choose myself whether to skip sections rather
than have it forced on me because of a question I answered
at some point. Maybe it does just come down to whether
this is what Toolkits is intended to be and what people
expect from a Toolkits project they're viewing.<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a><br>
[<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney [<a href="mailto:Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk</a>]<br>
Sent: 13 September 2012 10:58<br>
To: For Xerte technical developers<br>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages<br>
<br>
OK. Or we get some sort of documentation produced pronto.<br>
<br>
I am quite worried about connectors in general. I do
understand the point of them. I just don't think toolkits
is the right place for them, and I think we are trying to
force a linear piece of content to do something it was
never intended to do by hiding pages from menus, and
creating new navigation systems, and allowing people to
create bad stuff, and I don't want to be forced to do this
bad stuff in the HTML5 version to achieve parity with the
existing set of models, as the alternative is that
existing content won't automatically port over to the new
runtime.<br>
<br>
Personally I'd rather scrap them, put it down to
experience, and later, when we have the HTML5 stuff
working properly, we can look again at the problem.<br>
<br>
The FWS principle has got us a long way, I'm very wary of
losing that, and I feel like a lone voice in keeping on
speaking up for it.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>]
On Behalf Of Fay Cross<br>
Sent: 13 September 2012 10:44<br>
To: For Xerte technical developers<br>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connector pages<br>
<br>
If it helps, it was specifically the Scenario Connector
that she (and I) was confused about. She had tried the
other connectors and understood how they worked
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a><br>
[<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney [<a href="mailto:Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk</a>]<br>
Sent: 13 September 2012 10:39<br>
To: For Xerte technical developers<br>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] FW: Connector pages<br>
<br>
See below from Fay, who is manning a stand at ALT-C.<br>
<br>
I'm proposing we take the connectors out of the current
released version, before any more of the genie gets out of
the bottle. We have unresolved issues with the navigation
system to figure out, and there is insufficient
documentation regarding them to enable users to have a
good time with them.<br>
<br>
If people want to build more complex things, they can use
the standalone version. I don't know if connectors make
sense in the new HTML5 stuff.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Cross Fay<br>
Sent: 13 September 2012 10:30<br>
To: Tenney Julian<br>
Subject: Connector pages<br>
<br>
Hello<br>
<br>
Just had an embarrassing moment on the stand... Someone
came over to say that they have just installed toolkits
and she had been looking at the Scenario Connector page
and wanted help trying to understand it. I said I hadn't
used it myself but would try to work it out - it turns out
I have no idea what the hell goes on in it, how do you get
the scores to link to the actions? It desperately needs
more instructions as if I can't make sense of it, being
pretty familiar with Toolkits, then not many pople will! I
did say that it was developed by someone in the Xerte
Community so that's why I wasn't too sure about it.<br>
<br>
See you in a couple of weeks<br>
Fay<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><pre cols="72">--
--
Tom Reijnders
TOR Informatica
Chopinlaan 27
5242HM Rosmalen
Tel: 073 5226191
Fax: 073 5226196
</pre>
</font></span></div>
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