[Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

Fri Feb 17 17:01:37 GMT 2012

1. what about 'Linking Pages' and move the Navigators > Links page and
Navigators > New Window page into that menu? To me that makes sense e.g.
where the page is aimed at clicking a link to go somewhere it goes in the
Linking pages menu but where it's about loading content into the same page
it's a navigator. For a brief moment I'm thinking chunkers and linkers but
not seriously ;-)

2. global optional properties sounds good but aren't there too many examples
where that wouldn't be relevant? e.g. a transition option would be good as a
global property but that would only really be relevant to image pages?

3. My perspective is that anyone with the skillset to use the developer tool
with or without page wizards can work with whatever is provided but XOT
users and particularly teachers rather than learning technologists need the
consistency of interface and options we have at the moment. When I think
about the workflow of adding a routed image hotpot page in XOT teachers are
more likely to look down the tree of page titles to remind themselves of
what they want to link to and probably copy and paste that title rather than
add a title and a page ID to those pages and then back to the branching page
to add the ID. Perhaps the code should look for ID and if not found look for
page title too to cover both options? My hunch is that user can live with
the knowledge that if they change a page title they'll need to update the
link rather than if they add an ID and then change a page title the ID must
remain what it was or change both the ID and the routing link if you follow
what I mean. Although I understand the concerns about reliability with page
title in XOT it's visible in the tree and when viewing the LO and optional
page ID wouldn't be and could only be seen in each wizard page.

4. Thanks will try what you've added at some point.

5. Yes agreed merging is the best idea but I want to make use of what we
already have in XOT sooner rather than later. I wonder if we can agree some
basics that won't change so that I can add what we have now with a combined
hot spot image linking page to various XOT installations in the knowledge
that it won't break with a future release? Happy to perhaps have a skype to
discuss that?

HTH

Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 17 February 2012 09:34
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

Do we want an 'Advanced' category? This stuff is getting more like an
elearning developers tools, rather than the simple content creation we tend
to focus on.

Do we want nested menus (he says a little nervously) on the insert menu.?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 February 2012 09:27
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

1.      Yes, probably. 'Menus' category? Not sure 'roued page' is the right
termfor end users?

2.      Yes, as an optional property, why not. We mought to have a section
in the xwd for 'global optional properties', like narration, and the others
that appear throughout the file.

3.      Yep.

4.      Can build that into the engine, and have some methods 'showBack()
etc. I need to find some time to do that.

5.      Merge the two between you, Ron has already said that seems sensible.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan
Sent: 15 February 2012 22:27
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

I am delighted to see the interest that is being shown in routed pages.

In the Page Wizards I developed originally four routed pages that I plan to
make available as individual page templates. These are

.        Routed Hotspot Image (very similar to what Ron has demonstrated
here though currently lacking the optional parameter to change the link type
to something other than another page in the project, but offering support to
the author to help identify errors in destination specification)

.        Routed Multiple Choice Question - each answer option has its own
destination page.

.        Routed Plain Text - Text page in which hyperlinks can be added to
other pages in the project

.        Routed Tab Navigation - A tab navigator page that can display text,
images, swfs including flash paper and can also have options on any of the
tabs that provide a routed link to another page.

The scenario page is a later addition that post dates the Page Wizards and
has not yet been made publicly available. Whilst the other pages were based
on existing pages but added the routing capability, the scenario page is
like nothing currently available. The scenario page provides a page in which
a text description of a scenario and an image / swf / flv can be displayed.
The page also allows the defining of effects and actions in relation to the
scenario. Props can also be located in the page that have actions associated
with them. Actions have conditions which control when they are available and
outcomes which take place when an action is taken. Outcomes can change the
location of props, increment or decrement one of three author definable
scores, and also result in being routed to another page in the project. A
change of score beyond a specified value can trigger a "game end" situation
either a successful completion of the scenario or an unsuccessful
completion. 

The scenario page can stand alone, but it is designed with the intention
that a project can be comprised of several scenario pages that combined
together to deliver the full experience. A simple example could be a text
based adventure in which you can move from location to location, collect
objects and use them to complete tasks. Each scenario page would represent a
single location. However the potential exists to create complex challenging
projects with serious learning in mind e.g. a medical diagnosis and
treatment scenario in which the correct diagnosis and treatment results in
the patient getting better and inappropriate diagnosis or treatment results
in the gradual decline of the patient, or even demise should the project
author so wish!

The matter of routed pages raises a few issues

1.     Where do we put the pages - Can I suggest that since these pages
perform a significantly different function to the current navigator pages we
should provide them with their own menu option i.e. Routed Pages?

2.     Whilst routed pages have been available for about two years as Page
Wizards they will be new to most Xerte users. I believe it would make sense
to ensure that they all use the same page property to identify a destination
page so that they offer a consistent experience to the page author. The page
name is already doing duty as the title displayed in the top left of the
project window. As mentioned in an earlier post this raises the possibility
of links from routed pages being broken by a late decision to rename a page,
with no easy way of tracing this back to all the pages that route to it.
With this in mind I have added to every individual page template that I have
created an optional PageID property. I propose we use this. 

3.      Any solution must be designed to operate in both the desktop Xerte
(Individual Page Template) and XOT (project wide template) environments (I
have already indicated in an earlier posting how we can utilise the PageID
property to enable routing in both an individual page template and a
pageTemplates / XOT environment). 

4.     Navigation - Once you have routed pages the standard xerte navigation
(Next and Previous) can become inappropriate. Rather than providing just a
single menu, routed pages have the potential to provide branch points at
multiple locations in a project. This provides the capability to provide a
learning sequence and then test understanding and route the learner
according to their response. They can allow the learner to take risks and
learn the consequences of their decisions. Based on earlier work with routed
pages I suggest the following navigation would be useful. A) a back button
that worked like a browser back button i.e. a lifo queue. B) a next button
that can be turned on or off so that it can be displayed during none
branching sections of the project and hidden when on a routed page. The
content menu would also be less appropriate, unless you wanted to allow the
learner to exit the routing that was built into the project, so again you
might want to turn that off. I probably need to review my current Page
Wizards to refresh my memory as to how they handled this as you would
probably want to have settings in a routed page that disabled navigation
elements on opening the page and re-enabled them on page exit.

5.     We now have the luxury of two candidate routed Hotspot pages. Both
Ron's page and mine do the same thing, but under the hood they do it in
different ways. Each offer some features the other does not. I can't see
much point in implementing two pages that do pretty much the same thing.
What makes sense to me is to recognise that both Ron's page and my Page
Wizard will need some reworking in order to work both as an individual page
template and as part of a XOT project. If Ron is happy for me to do this I
would like to have a go at implementing an individual page template that
uses the pageID navigation approach and combines the features of his Page
Template and my Page Wizard. This would ensure a consistency of approach
between all the Routed pages whilst including  as much (hopefully all) of
the functionality unique to Ron's page and the functionality unique to my
page.

What do you think?

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 15 February 2012 16:36, Ron Mitchell <ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk> wrote:

Glad you see the point - wasn't sure that would be clear without a proper
example but yes I'm excited by lot's of possibilities with this.

Yes I figured it was better placed under Navigators than Interactivity but
happy to go along with what you think.

I'm not sure what this has in common with Jonathans scenario page but from
what I saw on the first of those two dev days this possibly meets a
different need/user. My focus here really is the creation of a visual page
where the visuals are created externally but the links are easily added via
the interface. I'm pretty sure the staff I work with will like it and put it
to good use.

I'll have a look at the alternative controls options. I agree what I did
there seems wrong but I searched the mailing list archive and found that as
a solution. Will have a look at the other options and test and report back.

So as you'll have seen the hotspot options at the moment include the
following:

internal link via page title

internal link via dropdown e.g. next, prev, first, last

external link

sound

The other thing I wondered about was having a pop up option where the text
added to that nested page is displayed in a popup when clicked and the popup
can be dragged around or closed. Is there anything existing for that?

Cheers

Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 15 February 2012 15:57

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

I like what you're driving at here, seems to work well. Not sure about
hiding / showing the interface buttons (I prefer to grey out or dull
inactive buttons rather than make them appear / disappear, and that would be
consistent with other xerte design stuff).

Is this a 'Navigators' page type?

What does it have in common with Jonathan's 'scenario' page?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 14 February 2012 17:05

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

It can be an ugly application too - especially late at night! ;-)

With Jonathan's talk of branching on a regular basis and inspired by the
recent rapid e-learning blog post about comic strip type interactions e.g.
http://www.worldwarfighter.com/hajikamal/activity/ and
http://www.brokencoworker.com/

I've been working on an additional page template page that I've had in mind
for years ;-) that for now I've called branching image. It's basically a
revision of the image hotspots page which links to internal or external
destinations rather than displaying hot spot panels. Here a quick test - I'm
hoping you'll be happy to include this in the official page template?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1388941/branching_image_example.zip

Cheers

Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 14 February 2012 16:35

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

>Xerte is such a beautiful application

You made me smile there. It's all good stuff, and I'm really grateful for
all the work you're putting in. Yes, these are all good questions for the
future. It's a bit like the old Authorware community: all these people who
really got what AW was all about, how fast and easy it was to build complex
stuff (to a point); it's the same with the people who get Xerte (I like to
think), unfortunately, they remain relatively few in number (but not a bad
number for a marketing budget of zero). If you think back though, there was
time when Macs were only being used by a very small number of zealous
maniacs.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 14 February 2012 16:17

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

I can understand why the focus may be on how the data that currently exists
in XOT projects can be output as HTML5.

XOT offers a tremendous facility in which to develop learning resources that
can be shared with other institutions, but not a friendly environment for
the creation of new page designs.

I believe that people will find in Xerte 2.18 (with the integration of
individual page templates and availability in several languages) a really
friendly and useful platform in which new page designs for XOT can be
created. This opens up the potential for the Xerte / XOT project to benefit
from the expertise of people all over the world who may develop and share
their page designs. 

I hope that in all the thoughts about the future of XOT some weight will be
given to how the wider XOT community might be facilitated to create new page
designs as XOT moves over to HTML5. Xerte is such a beautiful application
perhaps it might inform the solution to this question.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 14 February 2012 14:44, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
wrote:

Yeah, carry on, you're much closer to this than I am at the minute.

We're currently in a wait and see about some funding for HTML5 output from
toolkits: in the long run that's likely to be where my effort goes, and it's
something we're going to do anyway - the funding will just help us
prioritise the work.

I don't know what the answer is, but we do need to think about how those two
tools (Toolkits, primarily outputting HTML5) and Xerte (making .xml for an
AS2 runtime) complement each other. The wizard is possibly the only thing in
common in the end: our first attempts will be to take the existing data from
toolkits and run it into HTML(5) somehow. I can see the two things existing
in parallel for a good while yet (think, maybe 3 - 5 years) but ultimately I
can see toolkits de-coupling from Xerte. There is a lot of traction in
toolkits, and a lot more potential if it didn't rely on Flash.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 14 February 2012 14:36

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

I don't know if you have had a chance to work with the version of the Xerte
interface that includes Tom's modifications for individual page templates,
but it has really enhanced desktop Xerte as a development environment.

I can pick a page from a menu and see hints and thumbnails, just as you do
in XOT or a page templates project. When I select a page from the menu it
creates a folder for the page, copies the page's xwd to the folder and
automatically generates the xml for the page based on the xwd, saving it in
the page's folder. In addition it adds a new page to the project tree using
the page's rlm file.

This then leaves me in the desktop xerte environment with each page having
its own xwd and xml contained in its own folder. I can tinker with the
page's icon structure or just consume the page as originally specified,
whilst populating the page's data using the xwd form.

I can edit the page's xwd in FlashDevelop to add extra features and update
the page's structure to consume them. I have full access to all the
project's pages and every page's icons.

In desktop Xerte using individual page templates, once a page has been
created any change to Xerte's copy of the xwd file or rlm file does not
affect the page in the project, unlike in XOT where template.xwd and the set
of  rlm files are accessed when the project runs, thus resulting in any
changes to these files affecting all projects.

It is a great environment in which to develop new pages from existing ones.

Can you see any problem with the approach I am intending to take with
respect to the routed paging? Are you happy for me to continue with this
proposed solution to the issue?

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 14 February 2012 14:09, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
wrote:

OK, maybe we're just in slightly different worlds, me toolkits, you xerte.
You paste in models through the editor? (I can't remember) and then
essentially don't care about that model ever again: it's just there waiting
for some xml payload to drive it?

Do you actually add the child icons (i.e. essentially the same thing as
pasting in the model manually at design time? Or do you create a reference
to an external model file a la toolkits?

I can see it is tricky to set the icon property at design time.

There must be a way to set the name property at runtime, but maybe not so
easy of you've pasted the whole set of icons into the main piece - which is
what I think you do..?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 14 February 2012 14:05

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

There may be something wrong in my understanding of how things are working
here but my reasons for not going down this route were

1) The script you quote is from templates.rlt and does not exist in an
individual page template project - though something similar could perhaps be
added.

2) In an individual page template project there is no project wide external
xml file, rather each separate page has its own external xml file.

3) I am seeking to implement a solution that works for both pageTemplates
and individual page template projects.

4) Even if this can be made to work for individual page template files I am
still wary of using the name property (title field in the xwd form) as the
unique identifier as I think it is already being used to meet a different
purpose that could compromise it as a unique id. A project that used routing
could easily be compromised by a late decision to change the title of a
page. Which would affect every page that had been set up to route to it.
With a separate pageID used only as the identifier for routing purposes this
issue is avoided.

Since routed pages are not yet a feature of Xerte it makes sense to get a
solution that is robust. Have I missed something in my approach? Is there
anything in the approach that I am proposing that would be detrimental to
the project?

I have performed some limited tests with this approach using my scenario
page in both  pageTemplates and individual page template projects and thus
far it has worked reliably.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 14 February 2012 13:32, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Part of the problem has been the lack of a suitable identifier for each
page that could be set within an xwd form

Why can't you set attributes on the icon in the makePages script, in these
bits of code?

if (modName == 'xerteModel'){

  newXML = new XML('<PG model="' +
extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.modelFile + '"/>');

  //is there an initObject...?

  if (extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.initObject != undefined){

    newXML.firstChild.attributes.initObject =
extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.initObject;

  }

} else {

 newXML = new XML('<PG model="templatePath + \'models/' + modName +
'.rlm\'"/>');

}

newChild = newXML.firstChild;

newChild.attributes.title = extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.name;

newChild.attributes.linkID =
extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.linkID;

if (extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.linkID == _level0.linkID &&
extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.linkID != undefined){

  linkIndex = i;

}

ifc.appendChild(newChild);

newChild is the xml that is added to the interface. The engine then loads up
the modesl identified in each page attached, but does not replace the page
icons you create here.

You won't see the changes at design time(i.e. populate the name property in
the xerte editor), but they can be set at runtime, and thus be used for
navigation.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 14 February 2012 12:36

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

I have considered how to implement the ability to route pages for some time
now. Part of the problem has been the lack of a suitable identifier for each
page that could be set within an xwd form. In page wizards I used the "name"
field of the page icon, but this is not definable from an xwd form. 

In pageTemplates projects the xwd defined name value is used as the page
title and there is no way to set the page Icon name property. The page title
is a bad candidate as a unique identifier as its main function is to be a a
page title making it potentially lengthy, potentially liable to change,
possibly even unique and probably more prone to error in typing when
referring to it as a page destination.

As part of the move to individual page templates I am including in every xwd
file an optional property pageID the purpose of which is to act solely as an
identifier to enable other pages to locate it in the project.

I have a number of page wizards that I will be converting to individual page
templates that offer routing i.e. the ability to specify a target page which
the user will be taken to on completing an action e.g. making a selection
from a multiple choice question, clicking on a link in some text etc. These
will use the new pageID property.

This is achieved by using the following code.

In the rlm file's getPageID script the following opening is used for any
page that offers routing

if (extXML == undefined){ // Page Wizard 

    pageIcon.templateData = pageIcon.extXML.toObject();

    pageIcon.templateData = pageIcon.templateData.pageWizard[0];

    // routed pages only

    pageID_array = new Array();

    for (i = 0; i < rootIcon.pages.length; i++){

pageID_array.push(rootIcon.pages[i].extXML.firstChild.childNodes[0].attribut
es.pageID);

    }

} else { // Toolkits 

   myXML = new XML(extXML.firstChild.childNodes[rootIcon.getPageIndex() -
pgOffset]);

   pageIcon.templateData = myXML.toObject();

   rootIcon.setTitleText(templateData.learningObject[0].name);

   // routed pages only

   pageID_array = new Array(); 

   for (i = 0; i < extXML.firstChild.childNodes.length; i++){

     pageID_array.push(extXML.firstChild.childNodes[i].attributes.pageID);

   }  

}

This makes available to the routed page an array of every page in the
project with a value for pageID where it has been defined. 

Navigation to a page can then be handled in a manner such as

// navigate to destination page

for (i = 0; i < pageID_array.length; i++){

   if (pageID_array[i] == destPageName){

     pageFound = "true";

     destinationIndex = i;

     rootIcon.gotoPage(destinationIndex);  

   break;

  } else {

    pageFound = "false";

  }

}

This will open up the potential to create a variety of "routed" pages which
all use a standard method of page identification.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 14 February 2012 09:50, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
wrote:

Ah, the other gotcha is that those asfunc calls need the full path to the
object.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 14 February 2012 08:24

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

:-)

sleep worked!

Got it working with _level0.engine.navToPage(pagetitletogoto);

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett

Sent: 14 February 2012 00:43

To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

So much for in vino veritas.

  _____  

From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk

To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:31:28 +0000

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

Thanks for the suggestion Dave

but I've pretty much tried that but it's not working e.g. if I
debug(myPageIndex); it's coming up undefined.

Time to shut down and have another look in the morning.

Cheers

Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett

Sent: 14 February 2012 00:22

To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: navigating to page name

http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/pipermail/xerte/2010-April/004972.html 

??

I've had a couple pints, so I may be missing the point.

:-)

  _____  

From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk

To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:10:31 +0000

Subject: [Xerte-dev] navigating to page name

Hi

I think I'm missing something silly here :-(

In a script icon in a page templates project I want to dynamically pass a
page title to navigate to that page.

I know <a href="asfunction:_level0.engine.navToPage,yourpagetitle">Click
here or some other wording</a> works in xot as a hyperlink but haven't
managed to call the same function in a script icon?

Or is there another/easier way of doing this e.g. navigating to a page title
in a page templates project?

Cheers

Ron

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not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment

may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system:

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