[Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label
Julian Tenney
Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk
Fri Sep 8 16:33:40 BST 2017
Background reading here Julian!... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/526
Thanks!
I think we're in the right place, it's just the string to figure out. Tree/tracking isn't going to mean anything to most users. It makes sense that the label can be changed by the user for the tree.
My favourite option is to auto-increment the items as I said, which makes it really clear, but will need some work in the editor to support increment="true" in the xml. Otherwise I'm struggling a bit myself to come up with a good string for the default value which makes FWS sense.
What about
'Shown as' on the form and 'label' as the default value?
At least we're getting bogged down in stupid issues rather than serious ones :)
Have a good weekend
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 08 September 2017 15:56
To: For Xerte technical developers <xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label
So we used to have fields that were something like this:
Label: Question
Prompt: Enter a prompt
----
Label: Option
Option: Enter an option
Feedback: Enter the feedback for this option
But I wasn't keen as because the label fields were at the top & had default text of 'Question' & 'Option' I almost always completed these with the text I wanted to be on screen which then wouldn't appear (I wasn't only one confused by this... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/578 )
Now the labels are lower down the page & the default prompt text has changed to 'Enter the question' I don't think it would be all that confusing to have the label default text back to 'Question' & 'Option' (particularly if we could number them as Julian suggests too). I'm not overly keen on tree/tracking.
Honestly though, this has had so many changes & discussions over the last year or so that I've lost sight of what I would ideally like these to be like now...
Background reading here Julian!... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/526
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 08 September 2017 15:09
To: For Xerte technical developers <xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label
Understood. But the wizard does that for us with the labels on the form:
Answer: 'The answer the user will choose'
Label: 'A - Tree/Tracking Label'. WTF?
It's the default text in the pre-populated field for label that I have the issue with. The string 'A - Tree/Tracking label' makes no sense to most users. I would prefer it to just say 'label' or 'answer' or 'option'.
But if it could auto-increment it could say option1, option2, option3 and then it would immediately be obvious to the user what it was for.
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders
Sent: 08 September 2017 14:10
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label
I don't think it's about Answer or Option.... Frankly, I don't care.
The point is, that we need to be able to differentiate between the fact that the user is changing the contents of the Answer or Option, and changing the label used in the tree and the label used for tracking.
Tom
Op 8-9-2017 om 14:09 schreef Julian Tenney:
No worries!
Could we do the auto-increment thing do you think? Is that a good idea? And use incremenr="true" in the .xwd to add a count of the children to the end of the string?
Question1
- Option1
- Option2
- Option3
Question2
- Option1
- Option2
- Option3
Would be the best thing from my point of view, and then it's obvious what it's for. 'Tree' doesn't mean anything to most users. 'Answer label' to me sounds like the name of the property, rather than its value - why did you reject 'option' as the string? I seem to remember a similar semantic discussion years ago when we came up with 'question' and 'option'
Julian
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders
Sent: 08 September 2017 11:27
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label
Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to answer the list. Honestly :-)
I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question.
Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or even better 'Answer label'
What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how would they like it to be called?
Tom
Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney:
Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I'd appreciate other's points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open otherwise. We can't function well as a community if people are not aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process.
>From my point of view the confusing part is 'Tree/Tracking label'. Users do not know what that means. They probably don't know what tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that's the feedback I'm getting.
Julian
From: Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl]
Sent: 08 September 2017 10:34
To: Tenney Julian <cczjrt at exmail.nottingham.ac.uk><mailto:cczjrt at exmail.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label
I think the confusing part is the A
So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you prefer Answer label
Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of course.
Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney:
Hi,
We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it.
In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like...
Question
- Option
- Option
- Option
Question
- Option
- Option
- Option
Etc
Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this:
Q - Tree/Tracking label
- A - Tree/Tracking label
- A - Tree/Tracking label
- A - Tree/Tracking label
Q - Tree/Tracking label
- A - Tree/Tracking label
- A - Tree/Tracking label
- A - Tree/Tracking label
etc
This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'.
Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get
Question1
- Option1
- Option2
- Option3
Question2
- Option1
- Option2
- Option3
etc
...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say <blah... ...increment="true"/> presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children.
What do you think?
Julian
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