[Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms

Wed Mar 6 18:57:20 GMT 2013

I suppose one alternative would be to set up a wiki, but I am not sure this
is the best approach for help documents.

One thought that has just sprung to mind - what about using an ebook
editor? I know next to nothing about them but it would seem a possibly
logical platform to publish to. I am not sure if this would be the right
approach if we only want to create a set of individual files that are each
a single publication?

I did a quick google and found an open source wysiwyg editor called sigil.
It looks quite powerful, but it appears designed to pull together large
numbers of separate files into a single document.

I don't know if there is anyone on the list who is familiar with this stuff
and could pass a more informed opinion?

I have to admit, the one thing that concerns me with using Open Office is
that someone will go and open up the file in Word and bugger up its
formatting :-(

What concerns me about not using Open Office is the possible lack of a
familiar, versatile, and easy to use interface for creating the documents.

JK

On 6 March 2013 18:25, Dave Burnett <d_b_burnett at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Just my personal preference.
> Static documents usually lead to version control nightmares.
> I still believe in the Java "write once, deliver everywhere" fantasy.
> ;-)
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 18:20:51 +0000
> From: johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com
> To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>
> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
>
> Advantage of pdf?
>
> A single file that contains text and graphics and will maintain its format
> when printed out (some people still like to print things out).
>
> My approach so far has been to author the files in Open Office which will
> export to pdf. This provides a master file (the Open Office odt) file that
> is editable, and the pdf export of the odt file that can be published for
> Author usage.
>
> So whilst at present the file the Author uses is pdf, this is generated
> from a single, easily edited odt file. Open Office is free, open source,
> and available in many languages.
>
> I agree with the idea of allowing those with svn access to edit the help
> files. The current approach fully facilitates that.
> Folks with svn access can edit (or make a copy and translate) the odt file
> and then generate a new pdf file for publication.
>
> I am not sure of the benefit of trying to edit the help documents in a
> Xerte app. Why try to create a cut down word processor in Xerte, if there
> is already a fully featured one available for free?
>
> The only downside I see is that each help file consists of two files
> (rather than one) - the odt source file and the published public accessed
> pdf file. But this has upsides as well. The odt help file can be edited
> without affecting the published pdf file, which can be re-published once
> the editing / updating is completed.
>
> Just my take on things
>
> Johnathan
>
>
> On 6 March 2013 12:35, Dave Burnett <d_b_burnett at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Advantage of pdf?
>
> I would bet we get a lot more contribution if it's dynamic.
> Maybe something editable in a Xerte app?
> Folks with svn access can edit?
>
>
> > From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk
> > To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> > Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:09:21 +0000
>
> > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
> >
> > Sure Tom, I suppose an alternative would be to funnel everything through
> help/index.php?language=XX&file=YYY and let it decide which to serve up...
> >
> > I'm having to do similar with the api...
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Smith
> > Learning Technologist
> > School of Health & Life Sciences
> > Glasgow Caledonian University
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:05 AM
> > To: For Xerte technical developers
> > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
> >
> > It's not too much work to fall back to English if we need to,
> >
> > So have a help/<language code> for the help forlder location like we
> have wizard/<language code> now.
> >
> >
> > The thing I have against mod_rewrites is that it's webserver specific.
> >
> > So, now we only have to agree on the help file format. .pdf is fine with
> me...
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > Citeren "Smith, John" <J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>:
> >
> > > Why not just append the language code to the URL (new website) and mod
> > > rewrite the url. If there is a language file that matches send that,
> > > otherwise send the English one...
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > John Smith
> > > Learning Technologist
> > > School of Health & Life Sciences
> > > Glasgow Caledonian University
> > >
> > > From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> > > [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
> > > Julian Tenney
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:38 AM
> > > To: For Xerte technical developers
> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
> > >
> > > What about languages? You might want help in several languages. But
> > > we can cope with multi lingual wizards, so why not multi lingual help?
> > >
> > > The form is a bit of a pain because now we have advanced / language
> > > options, redrawing the form is a bit of a pain, so thinking
> > > differently might be a good idea.
> > >
> > > From:
> > > xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
> > > Johnathan
> > > Sent: 06 March 2013 10:02
> > > To: For Xerte technical developers
> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
> > >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > What I would like to be able to achieve is a means of providing a
> > > link to a pdf file that the author can access to provide additional
> > > information to support the use of the page type. My original need
> > > was to support the connector pages and the inventory page with more
> > > information about how the page worked and how, in the case of
> > > connector pages they could be used in conjunction with other pages.
> > > However the help file could provide other stuff such as examples of
> > > use or pedagogical information.
> > >
> > > How that link is made available to the author I don't have a strong
> > > view on. It just seemed that the <info> tag already provided the
> > > functionality (except for this frustrating glitch). If resolving the
> > > glitch was a simple matter then the <info> tag might be a convenient
> > > way of doing this without involving much time input. If however the
> > > glitch is difficult to pin down then a different approach might be
> > > appropriate.
> > >
> > > By putting the link in the xwd file it keeps everything about the
> > > page in one place. However it does have the disadvantage of making
> > > it difficult to change the location of the help files.
> > >
> > > Perhaps an approach that assumed the help file would use the same
> > > stem as the model file but have a pdf extension (e.g. quiz.rlm and
> > > quiz.pdf), would allow a Xerte or XOT project to define a single
> > > folder location for all the help files. The specific help file for a
> > > page type would then be accessed by combining the single folder
> > > address with the model name and a pdf extension.
> > >
> > > This would allow help files to be either located on a remote server
> > > or on a local server, or even in a desktop Xerte installation folder
> > > e.g. Xerte\pages\help\. It would also make it easier to change the
> > > locations of the help files as there would be only one path to change.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Johnathan
> > >
> > > On 6 March 2013 07:50, Julian Tenney
> > > <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk
> >>
> > > wrote:
> > > Maybe we should tackle this differently: rather than trying to
> > > display the <info> on the form, why not pop it up in a message or
> > > show it somewhere else?
> > >
> > > From:
> > > xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp
> > > Johnathan
> > > Sent: 05 March 2013 17:53
> > > To: For Xerte technical developers
> > >
> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
> > >
> > > The most recent version of the desktop would ensure you have the
> > > latest version of wizard.swf, but if you can see the Show Language
> > > Options I think that should be enough to demonstrate the issue.
> > >
> > > The "here is the help" text is the text contained in the info tag.
> > >
> > > If you click in the Show Language Options check box you will see
> > > that some additional fields are displayed in the form but that there
> > > is an expanse of blank grey form before the "here is the help" text
> > > is displayed.
> > >
> > > If you mouse over the grey area above the "here is the help" text
> > > you will see the mouse pointer change as it hovers over where the
> > > text entry boxes for the hidden language options are positioned.
> > >
> > > If you click on the Quiz2 page to open its xwd form the effect is
> > > clear as none of the fields are flagged as language options so as
> > > soon as the form opens you see that the display of labels and fields
> > > ends abruptly and then there is again the grey expanse of blank form
> > > before the "here is the help" text is displayed. You have noticed,
> > > in your second post that the entry below "single answer wrong" is
> > > cut short vertically. There are also more fields below this which
> > > are not displaying at all.
> > >
> > > If you edit the quiz.xwd file in the page002 folder to remove the
> > > "info" tag then all the fields defined in the form are displayed
> > > correctly. So it is the "info" tag that is causing the display issue.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Johnathan
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2013 10:43, Dave Burnett
> > > <d_b_burnett at hotmail.com<mailto:d_b_burnett at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > > What version of desktop is required?
> > > The only language related object I have showing is "Show Language
> > > Options" in the bottom bar.
> > >
> > > (I do see "Here is the help" in blue near the bottom).
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:23:23 +0000
> > > From: johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com<mailto:johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com>
> > > To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
> xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: use of info tag in xwd forms
> > >
> > > If you include the info tag in an xwd form it can result in the none
> > > display of the last entries in the form.
> > >
> > > The info tag displays at the bottom of the form with a blank area of
> > > form above it where the missing fields and field labels should be
> > > displayed.
> > >
> > > If you move the mouse pointer over the blank area of the form then
> > > the mouse pointer will change indicating that the fields are there -
> > > you just can't see them.
> > >
> > > The easiest way to explain what is happening is for you to see it
> > > for yourself.
> > >
> > > I have attached a simple demo. The demo is a standard Xerte project
> > > (not a "Pages" type project - I have manually set up the xwd links
> > > for the pages) in which I have set up two copies of the Quiz page.
> > >
> > > 1. Open this project in Xerte
> > > 2. Double click on the Quiz page to open the xwd form
> > > 3. Click on the language tab to display the language fields
> > > 4. Scroll down the form - you will see the blank area where the
> > > hidden language fields should appear and the blue info comment at
> > > the bottom.
> > > 5. The language tag is not significant to this issue.
> > > 6. Double click on the Quiz2 page, you will see the same effect
> > > without the use of the language tag (I deleted them from this pages
> > > xwd file)
> > > I don't know if the cause is to do with layers or visibility
> > > settings. I don't know what happens when the info tag is actioned in
> > > the code.
> > >
> > > I hope this makes the effect clear (if not the cause :-( )
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > Johnathan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5 March 2013 09:40, Julian Tenney
> > > <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk
> >>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > What's the problem in a nutshell?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From:
> > > xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp
> > > Johnathan
> > > Sent: 04 March 2013 22:18
> > > To: Xerte Developers Discussion List
> > > Subject: [Xerte-dev] use of info tag in xwd forms
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On the 4th December I posted to the developer list an issue with the
> > > xwd forms relating to the use of the "info" tag.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The inclusion of an info tag in the xwd form can result in space
> > > being allocated above the info tag for the display of the last few
> > > properties in the xwd form definition, but the properties are not
> > > visible in the form. You can however confirm their "presence" as the
> > > mouse pointer responds to them if moved over the input fields.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You can test this out in Xerte (or XOT) by creating a page using one
> > > of the Connector page types. The info tag has been used in these
> > > pages to link to a pdf help file that is hosted on the Xerte
> > > community web site, but the "language" flagged form properties are
> > > no longer all editable, due to the presence of the info tag.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a pity as the info tag could be used to provide a link to an
> > > external document that gives the Author useful additional
> > > information to assist them in making the best use of that page type.
> > > e.g.
> > >
> > > * Information about what the page is designed to do
> > >
> > > * Instructions on what the properties in the form are to
> > > help in completing the form created by the xwd file;
> > >
> > > * examples of actual uses of that page type in real projects.
> > >
> > > * examples of combining this page type with other page types
> > > to achieve a particular pedagogical approach
> > >
> > > * guidance as to how accessible the page is with respect to
> > > particular types of user, or what features the page has as optional
> > > properties to provide additional accessibility
> > >
> > > However at present if the "info" tag is used then the ability to
> > > edit the language flagged elements of the page is compromised.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this something that is intended to be addressed before the next
> > > release of Xerte / XOT?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry to be a nuisance, but it seems such a potentially useful
> > > feature it seems a shame not to be able to use it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Johnathan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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