[Xerte-dev] Re: font size changes

Fri Apr 5 09:53:06 BST 2013

Just tried it but the results in Flash and HTML5 are still quite different.

text in Flash displays the same as text in HTML5 but if the + is in HTML5 it’s a lot bigger.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk
Sent: 05 April 2013 10:47
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: font size changes

HI,

I’ve normally used .... Not 100% sure if this works in IE10, but it certainly works in older versions. It also has the advantage that it’s relative to the chosen font size, i.e. making the font larger or smaller in the browser will go on working, it’s only the relative size of the font inside the font tag that changes.

I’m a bit busy at the moment and won’t be able to check this properly until this afternoon.

Kindest Regards
Sent from Windows Mail on a Surface RT

From: Fay Cross
Sent: ‎05‎ ‎April‎ ‎2013 ‎09‎:‎29
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: font size changes

Ron

I've just had a look into this and it seems that when you use the font tag the size isn't pixels or points but a scale of the text.  So size="20" is the equivalent of "120%" if you were using css.  It doesn't recognise pt, px or em so won't change what it does to the text if you add these in.  The browsers are rendering the text in the correct way and it's flash that seems to deal with the tags differently and interprets the value you enter as pt.

If you want to change text using pt, px or em (I'd recommend em) then you would have to use an inline css style. But these won't work in Flash.

I can't find a way of doing this that will work consistently in Flash and HTML5.

Flash: <font size="20pt">text</font>
HTML5: <span style="font-size:20pt">text</span>

Fay

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 04 April 2013 22:50
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: font size changes

Hi John
I suspect that is working it's just that 14pt isn't much of a difference to the default 12pt in the flash player. Try adding the following:

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This is default size text e.g. 12pt
The following work via flash player but are too large via html 5:
Hello
Hello
Hello

However setting size to "4" or "6" works fine via HTML 5 but not Flash:
<font size="4">Hello</font>
<font size="6">Hello</font>
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Here's the above via Flash http://mitchellmedia.co.uk/xot/play_67
and the same via HTML 5 http://mitchellmedia.co.uk/xot/play_html5_67

HTH
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 04 April 2013 22:04
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: font size changes

Hi Ron,

Didn't know about this feature so thought i'd give it a try and look at the problem... but doesn't seem to be working. Any ideas? I've attached a few screenshots.

Regards,

John Smith | Learning Technologist
Room A251, Govan Mbeki Building | School of Health & Life Sciences | Glasgow Caledonian University Cowcaddens Road | Glasgow | G4 0BA ________________________________________
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
[xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell [ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk]
Sent: 04 April 2013 19:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] font size changes

Hi Fay
I changed the subject line here just to refer to the font size issue in this case...

Historically lot's of users (including myself) have used basic html to change font sizes and colours etc within text areas for the Flash based viewing of LO's e.g. Some larger text amongst smaller text and this has always worked well via the Flash player. Is there a reliable way to do this for the HTML 5 player without breaking Flash playback?

I've done a few tests and works for the Flash player but makes the text massive for the HTML 5 player. Whereas works for the html 5 player but makes the text tiny for the Flash player. I've tried % and em values etc but can't find a solution that works reliably for both players. Is there a way of getting pt sizes or something else to work reliably for both players? Not saying the sizes need to match exactly but the difference is quite extreme at the moment and could be another example of quite a lot of remedial work required to make an existing LO work ok via HTML 5.

Before it's suggested I don't think an auto convertor could or should automatically parse and strip font tags etc because there might be various reasons for those tags to remain including inside embed code etc.

Cheers
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 04 April 2013 15:50
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: HTML5

Just to confuse everyone, I've just fixed the title page bug Ron found in the LO he used as an example.  The odd font size thing on page 2 is because the author has put a font tag to change the size in the text they've entered in the wizard (Flash is ignoring it) so they really need to take that out.
I'll look into why the annotated diagram page isn't loading - I suspect it's because this is a very old LO and there's an attribute I'm assuming is in the xml that isn't and I haven't put a default in.

I completely agree that there are bound to be lots of things that come up like this - a combination of things the authors will need to tweak and bugs that I haven't noticed.

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 04 April 2013 15:17
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: HTML5

Sorry this is going to be a rather long reply but I think it's an extremely important topic. There's no right or wrong here but...

We aren't just talking about new installations we're talking about lots of upgrades e.g. all existing organisations upgrading to 2.0. We surely shouldn't be saying only use version 2 as a new clean install?

We also have a few to many model here e.g. the decisions and changes made by us and what is a tiny developer community compared with tools like Moodle benefits but also impacts many many more users and potentially thousands of individual learning objects and pages within those learning objects. It isn't realistic for all those users to re-check every single page within every single LO that they've created and shared previously. At least I'd say it's not in our interests to force them to have to do that.

It isn't just a case of technical compatibility with HTML 5. Fay and everyone else involved here has done a great job with the conversions and latest developments etc but I know from my own LO's and from what other users have said even where page types are available for both already, each LO and each page needs checking before changing the shared or embedded link to the html 5 version. I know html 5 is the future and offers lots of benefits but in many cases for existing LO's there would still be a preference to share the Flash link as the default and an alternative link to the html 5 version for mobile consumption. In many cases those LO's will be embedded in VLE pages and lots of different places and over time tested and refined etc for Flash based delivery including colour schemes and other customisations which wouldn't work or apply via HTML 5.

By only having a single play.php and other links defaulting to html 5 even for existing LO's we risk adversely affecting thousands of existing LO's and in some cases breaking them. I'll share a simple example below after a few more points.

There's lots more to unpick here and I'm not sure email/mailing list is the best format to discuss all this so perhaps a scheduled online meeting would be a good idea? In my opinion we need to try to differentiate between existing LO's and newly created LO's in version 2 without introducing a barrier to upgrading. I wonder if there's a way to achieve both by introducing a way to treat new LO's differently by default compared with existing LO's ideally under author control for each LO?

e.g. in an install upgraded to version 2 For existing LO's play.php and related links play the Flash version by default For new LO's play.php and related links play the HTML 5 version by default For all LO's there's an optional property that the author can set to determine whether HTML 5 or Flash is the default So this isn't auto-detection based on browser or device etc but is under author control to change defaults. If there's also a method of doing index.php?format=flash then fine too but I have real concern about the scenario that we haven't had so far where changing play.php to default to html 5 for existing LO's in an upgraded install could alter or even break all that existing content or at least some pages within each LO.

Here's a simple example/scenario...

Let's say Nottingham upgraded their existing install to version 2 where play.php now defaults all LO's including existing LO's to HTML 5 How many users, LO's and individual pages would that involve checking?
I really like the range of LO's with very visual title pages that Julianhas shared previously via the mailing lists etc e.g.
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_81
Compare that Flash view with the HTML 5 version
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_html5.php?template_id=81
Layout certainly changes
Some browsers e.g. Chrome and Safari on iPad don't show the title page images (not sure why that is?) Page 2 has very different font size via Flash and HTML 5 - not broken but arguably not a desirable change Page 4 appears empty via HTML 5 - so arguably broken I know some of these issue may be fixable but how realistic is that for all existing LO's? In any case it may take a long time to find and fix every issue like this.

So just in this one example there would be a lot to check and remedy if HTML
5 is forced for existing LO's. I know it's not just about play.php and may involve jumping through hoops just to avoid causing these sorts of problems but that few to many relationship says it all I think?

Just a few thoughts.
Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 04 April 2013 14:06
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: HTML5

I don't have a preference really as long as you can still have a link that will force you to the Flash version if that's what you want. I think Julian was keen for links out there already to still show the same content though (e.g. www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_560<http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_560> to still go to the Flash version). I might be wrong about that though - he's not here this week.

John - it's textDrawing, chart, customHotspots and inventory that use the canvas tag so won't always fully work in older browsers.  There's already a fallback in there for if audio/video tags aren't supported - it will use Flash instead.

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 04 April 2013 13:52
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: HTML5

I know i'm the new guy here but I agree with Pat.

Most people will expect a considerable change from a major point upgrade and
2.0 was always considered the HTML5 release so i think we should make that the focus and the default...

How about a single index.php file with a format parameter. Those still requiring flash can reroute the index and index_html5 to the opposites if required and when we have index.php?format=flash to force flash on if really required.

What models only work in flash anyway now, other than the majority of the drawing model?

The only other issue is IE6/7/8 fir mainly the audio/video tags but there are some good js libraries that will add in the html5 specific stuff and perhaps we should resort to using those.

Regards

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health and Life Sciences

Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII

"Pat @ Pgogy" <xerte at pgogywebstuff.com<mailto:xerte at pgogywebstuff.com>> wrote:

Two works for play and peer, though someone will need to write peer html5 and so on

It won't work for rss, syndicate - and it messes with the API ideas

And a lot of other stuff - embed codes, links - will need to be duplicated and the difference explained?

On 4 Apr 2013, at 10:05, Fay Cross
<Fay.Cross at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Fay.Cross at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Fay.Cross at nottingham.ac.uk%3cmailto:Fay.Cross at nottingham.ac.uk>>> wrote:

Two.  Unless that will cause problems?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk%3cmailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott>
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Pat @ Pgogy
Sent: 04 April 2013 09:24
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: HTML5

So are we going with the two urls or the one URL approach?

Pgogy Webstuff - http://www.pgogywebstuff.com<http://www.pgogywebstuff.com/<http://www.pgogywebstuff.com%3chttp:/www.pgogywebstuff.com/>>
Makers of web things of a fair to middling quality

On 28 Mar 2013, at 15:04, Tom Reijnders
<reijnders at tor.nl<mailto:reijnders at tor.nl<mailto:reijnders at tor.nl%3cmailto:reijnders at tor.nl>>> wrote:

Op 28-3-2013 15:37, Julian Tenney schreef:

Brilliant.

1.       Exporting seems to cause people a lot of problems, but I guess they
do seem to use it (rightly or wrongly). I'd prefer to have options to export the various types of zip for either html5 or flash, I think. I have no idea how hard this is to do? I'd love to drop this functionality because it just seems to cause a lot of unnecessary problems, I'm not sure people really need to export content as much as they do - but there are some valid reasons to do it, so I suppose we're stuck with it. Tom adapted the original exporting code, would this be something that is easy for Tom to look at? Or reassure me that I can adapt your code easily to use different paths / folders etc?
I'll look into this. I need to anyways, because of SCORM.

2.       The play_html5_1234 is a good idea, yes, for consistency. On
installs where this works, does the play_html5.php?template_id= work as well?

yes the other URL will work as well.

3.       Yes, everything should default to the html5 output. Peer review
needs a new URL as well. CTRL-Click can launch the flash version instead from the wizard. I'm not sure we need browser detection: people should use the URL they built it for; however, we should probably put something in place for older browsers to say 'upgrade your browser' or similar? I'm guessing the paths are easy to amend in the php?

What else do we need to look at before we can release this? This morning we tentatively agreed to have it all ready for FRIDAY 26th APRIL. Do we need a list of open issues that need resolving before the release? I'm thinking of the Firefox security thing in particular, though it sounds like you're getting close John? Also the thing with the buttons staying greyed out that appeared recently? If Tom's SCORM work isn't ready by then, I'm not sure it's a big problem?
No, I don't think SCORM is a show stopper (but I'll do my utmost!)

I've made a titanpad here for a list of things to do:
http://titanpad.com/xottwopointoh. I want to concentrate on finishing existing work, rather than starting anything new just now, but please add any bugs to it as well, and we'll fix as many as we can.

An aside, is it worth starting to think about when / where we do another AGM? If we do it outside of teaching time, we can do it in rooms here at no cost. Maybe sometime in July?

I'm off next week, but will have some time after that to help out with getting this finished, Julian

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk%3cmailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott>
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 27 March 2013 17:17
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] HTML5

Hello all

As you should know the HTML5 work is nearly complete and there are only a couple of page types for me to complete before we can release a new version of Toolkits with the HTML5 interface as the default view.  I have a few things that I could do with some help on before the release so if anyone can give me a hand with them or just give your opinions it would be much appreciated...

1.       Exporting HTML projects:
The files that would need to be in the zip would be more or less the same as for the Flash version but using the common_html5 and models_html5 folders instead of common/models.

2. Abbreviated link:
Possibly something Ron can help with as I've noticed it's working on his install. Can abbreviated links be made to work e.g.
www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_html5_560<http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/too<http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_html5_560%3chttp:/www.nottingham.ac.uk/too>
lkits/play_html5_560> rather than using the full url?
(Apologies Pat, I think you partly answered this for me previously but I can't find it)

3.       Play / Preview links:

a.       Links in project properties, preview button in workspace and
preview in wizard need to be updated to go to the HTML5 version.

b.      In the wizard should Ctrl-Click bring up the Flash version when
clicking normally is changed to HTML5?

c.       Do you think there needs to be some browser detection that decides
which version people see?  The problem I can see with this is that if we start adding new features or pages to the HTML5 version then by sending them to the Flash version instead they may miss out on some content.  Not many of the page types in the HTML5 version actually use HTML5 tags if that makes sense - probably just the handful where the canvas tag is used (textDrawing, charts etc.) so there might not be many instances where there will be problems if you're on an older browser anyway.

4.       Page models:

a.       John - is the flickr page finished?

b.      Johnathan - I've emailed you off list about a few queries I've got
with the connector pages, I hope this is ok - I didn't want to bother everyone else with them

c.       SCORM - this isn't working at the moment but I can't quite remember
what's missing.  I'll email with more details of what help I might need when I've looked back at it

Thanks
Fay

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