[Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Fri Nov 16 14:05:46 GMT 2012

No worries.

Regards,

John Smith | Learning Technologist
Room A251, Govan Mbeki Building | School of Health & Life Sciences | Glasgow Caledonian University
Cowcaddens Road | Glasgow | G4 0BA
________________________________________
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell [ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk]
Sent: 16 November 2012 14:06
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Thanks John will do but in an online meeting for a while so won't be until
later...

-----Original Message-----
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 16 November 2012 13:58
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Try those changes I just committed.

Regards,

John Smith | Learning Technologist
Room A251, Govan Mbeki Building | School of Health & Life Sciences | Glasgow
Caledonian University Cowcaddens Road | Glasgow | G4 0BA
________________________________________
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
[ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk]
Sent: 16 November 2012 12:48
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

of course I meant I deducted not added 1! ;-)

e.g. destinationPage = destinationPage-1;

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 12:46
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

That was why I raised the question...

http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play_html5.php?template_id=163 works

but appending page=4 doesn't

But I suspect I know why...

in the Flash code I added 1 to the variable to accommodate the first array
value being 0

so
http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play_html5.php?template_id=163&page=3 works
but goes to page 4 and
http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play_html5.php?template_id=163&page=4
doesn't work because there isn't a page 5

Obviously to be FWS we need the number to match the page number rather than
the array number.

Is that a quick fix?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Smith, John
Sent: 16 November 2012 12:30
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

It should do. I committed code last night and it was all working with all 3
extensions linkID=, pageID= and then page= but didn't get a chance to
rigourously test it.

http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play_html5.php?template_id=163&page=4 times
out for me..

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 12:26 PM
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

also at the moment causes some problems with the xenith version so I guess
the xenith code needs to look out for asfunction links somehow

e.g. http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play_html5.php?template_id=163 click
the link on page 1

Also John should adding &page=x to the html5 link work now? e.g.
http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play_html5.php?template_id=163&page=4

I get a blank page.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 12:02
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

I like the page list selection but just tried with all browsers and the
links aren't working.
http://vle.jisctechdis.ac.uk/xot/play.php?template_id=163
There's a link on page 1 and page 4 but neither work :-(

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:45
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

It is now

;-)

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:45
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Its in the wizard, yes,

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:47
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

is the context menu meant to be available with the XOT changes? I updated
the techdis install but not seeing that option.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:15
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Give it a whirl, I just commited everything

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:17
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

look like it would and I'd be curious if it works via play.php?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:08
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

On that basis this would work?

linkID =
extXML.firstChild.childNodes[rootIcon.currentPage].attributes.linkID;
httpStr = callJS(' function(){ return document.location.href.toString();}');

if (httpStr.indexOf('?') == -1){
  deepLink = httpStr + '?linkID=' + linkID; } else {
  deepLink = httpStr + '&linkID=' + linkID; }

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 11:03
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Subject of the discussion I started on 18/09/2009 was: detect/retrieve url
of an LO It was IE7 then so perhaps it's fine now?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:53
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

I haven't tried

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:55
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Probably - if you're picking that up reliably in all browsers?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:47
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Is it enough to append it to window.location?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:49
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

When I initially put together the QRCode page I also wanted to do this so
there was an easy and quick option to add the URl to the LO itself. I seem
to recall we had a range of discussion but that at the time at least there
wasn't an existing ready made way of getting to the full url. Perhaps that
has changed since?
I seem to recall having a similar issue to the deep linking in IE - couldn't
find a reliable cross browser solution but this was some time ago.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:32
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

In the tempalte code, how do I build the URL to play.php? Do I have
variables I can access to easily make for example
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/toolkits/play_560?linkID=PG12345678

I can't remember if they are there or not. Also, what about non-apache where
the URL needs to be play.php?templateID=blah&linkID=PG12345678

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:25
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Sounds good.
The only thing I forgot to mention is that 1. doesn't quite negate the use
of plain text connector because of the option to control navigation buttons.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:18
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

1.      Is all done. A useful method for other connector navigation is the
rootIcon.pageLink() method which (guess what) navigates to a page based on a
linkID. Johnathan: what other navigation support do you need (if anything)?

2.      Yes, maybe. A separate problem.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:14
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

ok sounds like two plans:

1. enabling the context menu linking between pages using linkID - far easier
and more reliable than the old pageTitle script

2. perhaps at some point a small share icon/option in the interface which
pops up options to share this LO and share this page perhaps even a twitter
share option!

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:03
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Leave the linking from outside to one side for now. I think that needs to be
available in the runtime to all users of the LO somehow, rather than the
editor side of things?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Ron Mitchell
Sent: 16 November 2012 10:03
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

three thoughts...

1. I've often thought the ability to internally link between pages by
manually adding the asfunction page title script should be easier so having
that as part of the context menu would be great!

2. However that's different to the ability of an author to create a suitable
external 'permalink' to a specific page by exposing access to the linkID

3. Perhaps the ideal solution for an author to generate an external link
containing the right linkID if possible would be to have a clickable link or
button in the editor. So on each page there is a 'permalink to this page'
icon or link which when click pop-up the browser window with the full url
and linkID or copies the same to the clipboard and alerts to that fact.

I know that's easier said than done and there is the aspect that the LO
would need to be set to public too but just a few thoughts...

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: 16 November 2012 09:39
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

That would effectively make the plain text connector redundant because you'd
be able to add links to other pages anywhere you like.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Smith, John
Sent: 16 November 2012 09:20
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

Re. 3 - Can't the context menu just have a new entry in the context menu,
"Link to page" above "Hyperlink" which opens a new dialog letting the user
select the Page from a list?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Julian Tenney
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 9:16 AM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

1.      I can easily do that: as the list is built, I loop over every page.
At that point I can check for a pageID and make it into a linkID. I will add
this code and check it in.

2.      When we did the setNavigationStyle() thing there are two options:
historical and linear, with different graphics (not settled on the graphics
yet) for the back button and the ability to add a home button with
addHomeButton(). That's all done engine wise. Does anything else need to
happen?

3.      I'm not close enough to this detail. What's the answer: to expose
the linkID in the wizard somewhere, or allow it to be copied to the
clipboard?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of
Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 15 November 2012 16:39
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

But will attach again here .... whoops

On 15 November 2012 16:28, Kemp Johnathan
<johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com<mailto:johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com>> wrote:
Sorry for the delay in responding - had to pop out for a while.

The 3 outstanding issues are

1.     Whether to enable the pageList control to receive a pageID in the xml
data and convert it to a linkID. This is not essential. It will just provide
better backward compatibility with any projects using the current Connector
pages.
2.     Decide on what navigation options are acceptable to you and to what
degree support for setting them is provided by the engine rather than with
extra code in the models. This is discussed in the navigation.pdf document
that I have posted previously but will attach again here. If you need any
clarification on any of it please let me know. Once I know what support is
available in the engine I can work from there.
3.     We need to decide how best to handle the plainText connector given
that the Author in XOT cannot see the linkID value for a page. If it is
acceptable to you then one option is to allow the Author to add child page
elements in the same way I have implemented how you specify specific pages
for the Connector Menu in the example I posted earlier. Then the Author can
just put the number of the page in the hyperlink i.e. first child page = 1,
second child page = 2. If it would help I set this up for your appraisal.
Kind regards

Johnathan

On 15 November 2012 13:41, Julian Tenney
<Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>>
wrote:
OK. So we can push on with making the linkID / pageList stuff work in
toolkits, that will naturally apply to the pageTemplates projects, and you
guys can then sort out the page wizards implementations.

What do you need me to do?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at li
sts.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 15 November 2012 12:00

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

I have just had confirmation from Tom that the use of one .rlm file and two
xwd files in the manner discussed earlier will not cause any problems for
the creation of templates.xwd files or translation issues.

JK

On 15 November 2012 11:58, Kemp Johnathan
<johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com<mailto:johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com>> wrote:
If Xerte and XOT can share the same .rlm file then this will give the best
integration between Xerte and pageTemplates and XOT and pageTemplates.
Support and development work on the rlm files can still carry on in Xerte
with any necessary changes to the data they consume being accommodated by
editing the respective two xwd files. The rlm file will know that in Xerte
Pages mode it is getting pageIDs and in pageTemplates / XOT it is getting
linkIDs.

We need to finalise how the navigation options will work to be certain that
this will not preclude this option.

JK

On 15 November 2012 11:41, Julian Tenney
<Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>>
wrote:
The crux of it seems to be then, how do we support connectors in page
wizards?

Otherwise, the linkID / pageList controls make a big difference to the
usability of connectors in toolkits / page templates projects.

So options;
Support them through a different set of files that are only deployed in page
wizards in standalone Xerte Or drop them from page wizards / standalone
xerte

Is this the consensus we're reaching?

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at li
sts.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 15 November 2012 11:31

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Connectors

To try to narrow this down it seems to me we need to

1. Resolve the navigation option handling for the Connector Pages in XOT 2.
See if it is still possible to use a single rlm file and two xwd files 3. If
it is possible then we have the option to run with Xerte Pages projects and
XOT / Page Templates still using the same .rlm files.
4. If it is not possible to run with a single rlm file and separate xwd
files for Xerte and XOT Page Templates then either
a) We separate XOT and Xerte and they go their separate ways with completely
separate sets of model files and xwd files but this could lead to
discrepancies between pageTemplates projects and XOT projects as
pageTemplates projects would be using the xerte rlm files.
or
b) We keep support for pages projects in Xerte but set the Connector pages
xwd files to be only available to XOT. This will remove Connector pages from
being available in Xerte and make them only available to XOT /
pageTemplates.
or
c) We scrap all support for pages projects in Xerte and take Xerte back to
where it was before page wizards or pages projects were developed. i.e You
can round trip XOT to pageTemplates projects but you cannot access
individual page wizards in Xerte.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 15 November 2012 11:02, Kemp Johnathan
<johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com<mailto:johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com>> wrote:
As a way of putting off the day we need to make a decision I can offer the
following, but I don't know what impact any developments regarding the
navigation aspects will have on this because I don't know what how you want
to handle this yet.

I can produce a set of files for each connector page as follows using the
connector menu page as an example below

connectorMenu.rlm
being a single rlm file that will work in XOT or Xerte

connectorMenu.xwd
being an xwd file that works in Xerte and is flagged for xerte only and uses
text fields and Page IDs instead of pageLists

xot_connectorMenu.xwd
being an xwd file that works in XOT using the pageList control and is
flagged to only be used in XOT

At present the use of the pageList control will break the connections set up
in any legacy projects that are already created, unless it can be made to
look up the linkID if the xml data contains data that does not begin with
"PG".

The way the menu connector handles the option to specify a list of pages has
changed so that the Author can select pages using the pageList control (or
enter pageIDs individually in Xerte) so that will break legacy projects but
it will present a consistent approach between the two.

In principle what should happen is when you build the template.xwd file the
xot_connectorMenu.xwd file should get included and the connectorMenu.xwd
file should get ignored. But I need to check with Tom if there are any
implications with this.

I have attached a pageTemplates project example containing the reworked Menu
Connector so you can see how it is panning out. I will need to edit the code
a little to make it agnostic about pageIDs or linkIDs but that should be
fairly simple.

I have used the linkID to locate the page index so don't I can manage with
out a rootIcon.gotoPage(linkID) method. It is easier this way to work with
both pageIDs and linkIDs.

This just leaves how to handle the plainText connector situation in which
the Author cannot see the linkID value.

I had a thought about that. You could add a child element like I have in the
menu Connector and then put an index value in the hyperlink e.g. <a
href="asfunction:_level0.engine.fnTextCon,1" target="_blank"> would point to
the first child element, <a href="asfunction:_level0.engine.fnTextCon,2"
target="_blank"> would point to the second child element. The fnTextCon
function could then look up the linkID from the xml data.

Then for all the connector pages we have the navigation options to resolve.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 15 November 2012 10:12, Ron Mitchell
<ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk<mailto:ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk>> wrote:
The only additional thing that springs to mind right now is whether there
can be a check whether the project is a pages/page wizard project and in
that case the pageList control isn't used and the old manually added pageID
is used instead. I guess Jonathan is best placed to know whether that would
work and what would be involved.

From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nott
ingham.ac.uk>
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at li
sts.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 15 November 2012 09:12
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Connectors

We need to figure out how we are going to deal with the connectors.

Summary
- We want to use the new pageList control in the wizard to allow users to
create and use linkIDs behind the scenes. Users will simply select the name
of the page they want to jump to from the pageList control. The pagelist
control writes the linkID of the selected page to the attribute's value.
- This means re-working the connector pages to use the linkID rather than
pageID (I don't think this is hard / lengthy)
- This brings a big improvement to the connectors in toolkits.
[so far so good

The same thing would also work with a page templates project in standalone
xerte. Project's could still be round-tripped to toolkits and back again.
[so far so good still]

Problem
The problem is with the page wizards. When using the wizard there, there is
no way of getting a list of pages in the piece, or generating linkIDs for
them, so this approach won't work. Now there are many problems, because the
page wizards share the code with the page templates models.

Considerations
Xerte standalone is pretty much at the end of its life.
Hardly anyone uses page wizards in standalone xerte.

Before we discuss options, is there anything else to add to this summary?
Please keep comments short and to the point so that we can get a clear sight
of the problem and the options we have available.

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