[Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

[Ron Mitchell]

This is straying a bit off-topic so firstly for Julian's needs - have we
agreed that by default the back and next buttons are restored to how they
always were e.g. linear not history?

 

Re connector functionality:

 

Jonathan - people often use the various page types in XOT in different ways
than originally intended and I can see this being the case with the
connector pages too. This is a positive thing but does mean that the
connectors may not be used in just the way you personally intend. I've
supported many many teaching staff in the use of XOT over the years and I
believe I have a very clear idea of how different connector pages might be
used especially by colleagues in FE. I already appreciate how the connectors
might be used and how they might be used by these colleagues and my comments
where in that context.

 

You've said: "Whilst I originally designed things around the availability of
control of every navigation button I think in hind sight that the reduced
number of options is probably less confusing for users and adequate for most
needs."

 

Generally I agree that the simpler the better but your decision to remove
the ability to disable back or forward independently has also removed the
possibility to use the connectors in a way that I would foresee being a
common usage. e.g. a connector page is used to provide a form of
differentiation whereby the result of a choice/interaction bypasses a series
of pages and from that point the user can go forward but not linear back
e.g. they arrive at page 7 from a connector on page 3 and can then go
forward to page 8 and onwards but not back to page 6, 5,4 etc. Without the
ability to disable the back button this can't be achieved without having a
connector page as the destination page and I can see times where authors
will want the destination page to be a non-connector page. Likewise I can
see times where the author wants the user to arrive at the destination page
and be able to go back to the connector but not linear forward or linear
back. Yes this can be achieved by adding a redirector or other connector
after that destination page but practically and aesthetically that may not
always be desirable and at the moment if the destination page is a
non-connector the back and next can't be disabled. Now I know that also in
this example once on a subsequent non-connector page e.g. page 9 the user
could then use the TOC to visit page 6, 5 or 4 but again in this context and
my experience the TOC button is rarely used and if the user has done this
they will have strayed off-topic anyway. That said an optional LO property
to disable the TOC button across the whole LO would be useful and even when
not using the connectors.

 

I don't want this to become a long and continued debate but to summarise -
in my experience and context without these options to disable the back and
next and TOC buttons independently limits the value and likely usage of the
connectors.

 

HTH

Ron

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan
Sent: 30 July 2012 22:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

That is pretty much what we did.

 

It worked fine for an ordinary XOT project until you used the TOC.

 

If you went P1 to P2 to TOC to P8 then the stack would take you back from P8
to P2, but people who are familiar with a Xerte project, rather than say a
web browser, would expect the final back from P8 to take them to P7.

 

In answer to Ron's question. Originally the Connector pages gave individual
control over all the navigation buttons. However to try to make them easier
to use the range of choices was simplified. For a Connector page the
navigation can be either all navigation buttons or no navigation buttons.
Connector pages that are most likely to be used for setting up specific
routing include an option available to the page element that defines the
connection exit point to configure the navigation for the destination page.
This offers all navigation or just the back and next buttons. There must be
some navigation if the destination is a none connector page, this
destination setting is less relevant if the destination is another connector
as the setting on the connector page for navigation will reset the setting
made on the exit point. The reason back and next is offered and not
individual control of all buttons was because a historic back button was
available so that back would take you back to the connector page, whilst
next would allow you to move on in the project. The use of the redirector
connector at the end of a sequence of ordinary pages was the intended way of
ending a sequence of ordinary pages to re-direct the user back into the main
project flow again.

 

Whilst I originally designed things around the availability of control of
every navigation button I think in hind sight that the reduced number of
options is probably less confusing for users and adequate for most needs.

 

My original interest in having an ability to move both back and forward
through the history was to accommodate learning objects that presented a
decision tree. The historic back button allowed the user to retrace their
steps back up the tree, but then they could if they wanted return down the
tree. However they could always do this anyway by making the same choices
again.

 

I don't know if this makes anything clearer?

 

I suspect people need to play around with the connector pages in order to
really appreciate the opportunities they provide and the issues they may
raise.

 

Kind regards

 

Johnathan

 

On 30 July 2012 17:40, Pat Lockley <patrick.lockley at googlemail.com> wrote:

dumb point

can't you just have a stack of page ids?

Then Back is always the top of the stack?


On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Kemp Johnathan
<johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I guess it comes down to the back button taking you to the page you were
> previously on, and with connectors, that needs to be historical.
>
> If you use a connector as a menu then arguably its no different to using
the
> TOC. It is when you use the Connectors as a means to set up specific
routing
> through a project that the historical navigation becomes more of an issue.
>
> However for now the trick of starting a branch with a connector page could
> provide a work-around.
>
> I am very aware that there is little familiarity with the Connector pages
> and limited understanding of the issues and opportunities that connector
> pages pose in the Xerte / XOT community at present. Perhaps one approach
> could be to run with what we have now and let the XOT community identify
> what, if any, issues are felt need addressing in a future release .
>
> My use of Connector pages  in real projects goes back to the page wizard
> days before I retired.
>
> I have uploaded to the pageWizards section of the svn a project that I
> developed using the page wizard version of the tabbed navigator connector
so
> that you can get a feel for how that page might be used and some of the
> navigation issues.
>
> At the time I used my own custom navigation as no historic back button
> existed.
>
> This project is copyright, so please don't distribute it further.
>
> Julian, once you have either taken your own copy or played with it as long
> as you want to, please delete it from the svn.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Johnathan
>
> On 30 July 2012 15:27, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
wrote:
>>
>> I guess it comes down to the back button taking you to the page you were
>> previously on, and with connectors, that needs to be historical.
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to see some examples to really get my head around the perms and
>> combs of the connectors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another idea is a different custom interface that handles the navigation
>> entirely differently for these situations, and doesn't confuse users used
to
>> the way the various buttons function.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
>> Johnathan
>> Sent: 30 July 2012 15:16
>>
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope I have positioned this so that there is no additional scrolling
>> required :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't want to debate against you, I want to work with you to find a way
>> forward :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Connector pages can manage without a historical next.
>>
>>
>>
>> The lack of a historical back button is only a problem when you use a
>> mixture of connector and none connector pages and want to set up specific
>> routes through the project. This is because the back button could enable
the
>> learner to step "off the route" (which would not be possible with a
>> historical back button). However if a historical back button is deemed
>> inappropriate then it may be possible for the learning object author to
>> avoid the issue by careful use of the Connector pages. If the author
ensures
>> that each branch of a "route" starts with a connector page e.g. Plain
Text
>> Connector offering a link to the first none connector page in the
sequence
>> for that branch, then the learner will not be able to go back to a page
off
>> route as the linear back button will take them back to the plain text
>> connector that started the branch, which would have navigation disabled.
It
>> is not as elegant as a historic back button as a solution, but it would
work
>> and it would avoid the concerns of having navigation buttons that worked
in
>> different ways.
>>
>>
>>
>> So we could get away with just linear navigation and still use the
>> Connector pages.
>>
>>
>>
>> How does that sound?
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnathan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30 July 2012 13:54, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think the problem is the navigation buttons. No one is debating that
>> routing or branching through content might be useful. But if the
interface
>> suddenly starts doing things differently / inconsistently, that is a
>> problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right now, linear navigation works fine: in linear mode, it works; in
menu
>> with page controls, it also works I think; and in menu only, you don't
see
>> the buttons, so it's not a problem. You hit the TOC to go to the menu;
you
>> go next and back through the content. That is consistent, predictable.
The
>> buttons always do the same things.
>>
>>
>>
>> During testing, the historical back kept surprising me with what
happened.
>> That tells me there is a problem with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Having a next button that is sometimes a next button and sometimes a fwd
>> button worries me.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have always mandated doing branching by jumping to other LOs for the
sub
>> sections.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have spent a lot of time here at the University re-working content that
>> had crazy Authorware-era navigation systems, branching etc. In many, it
was
>> impossible to find your way back to the information you knew was there,
but
>> you couldn't remember how you got there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Users will not differentiate between 'linear' and 'menu' driven content,
>> to them it is just content, and they will expect the buttons to do the
same
>> thing every time they click them.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, without the connectors in the picture, we don't really have a
problem.
>> I don't have  problem with the connectors per se, but I do have a problem
>> with the implications for an interface that people already know and use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
>> Johnathan
>>
>>
>> Sent: 30 July 2012 12:58
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Julian,
>>
>>
>>
>> There is always the possibility for people to create bad stuff. Some of
>> the worst "e-learning" material I have come across has consisted of a
series
>> of pages of information with the odd quiz thrown in on the assumption
that
>> this will somehow "test learning". I don't think there is an e-learning
>> development tool on the planet that can prevent people form creating "bad
>> stuff". However if a software tool is limited in its features it can
prevent
>> the creation of more engaging learning objects.
>>
>>
>>
>> The ability to offer branching (or connections if you prefer) can allow
>> for the development of learning objects that require users to think and
make
>> decisions (including mistakes) and then learn from the results of those
>> decisions. But any development tool that supports this feature will also
>> require of the author that they think about how they set up their routing
>> through the project or learning object.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think that this is about standalone Xerte V XOT in that the
>> connector pages do not require someone to have access to the structure of
>> the page.
>>
>> .         The people who are happy with sequential projects simply won't
>> bother with the Connector pages.
>>
>> .         Other users will use the simpler connector pages to flag up
>> pages of interest or provide sub menus, without actually defining
specific
>> routes through a project. I am thinking here of the menu connector page,
>> hotspot image connector and plain text connector.
>>
>> .         Those who want to set up specific routing will start making use
>> of the tab navigator connector and the redirector connector.
>>
>> .         It may take some time before anyone embraces the Scenario
>> connector. But the reaction last September to the demo of the prototype
page
>> suggests that there will be some people out there who will be excited by
it
>> and will want to make use of it. I think that once a few working examples
>> that use the Scenario page are produced, then interest in the page will
>> grow. However initially people will have to get their head around what it
>> does and how they can make use of it.
>>
>> It seems to me there are a couple of issues that are causing the main
>> concern.
>>
>> 1.      The Navigation issue - i.e. the need for a historic back button
>> when projects are being created that use Connector pages to set up
specific
>> routes through a project. Perhaps what might help with this is if the
back
>> button icon could change to indicate when a project was using an
"historic"
>> back button. This would avoid learner confusion caused by the back button
>> doing something unexpected. Maybe a back arrow with three overlapping
>> rectangles (a bit like the way the drag-able items stack in the time-line
>> matching pairs page.) would be enough to convey the idea.
>>
>> 2.      The complexity of some of the pages, in particular the tabbed
>> Navigator Connector and the Scenario Connector. There is documentation to
>> support the use of these pages. There are already in Xerte and XOT pages
>> that are not intuitive to use e.g. the Interactive Diagram
(customHotspots)
>> which works differently from any other page. The mapstraction page (I
have
>> still not figured this one out yet!) There is no documentation to support
>> their use.
>>
>>
>>
>> XOT has captured a large audience. Will it really frighten someone off
XOT
>> if they can't cope with a particular page? Or will they just ignore that
>> page type in future and stick with what they are comfy with? Meanwhile
those
>> who are eager for more features will start producing even more
interesting
>> and diverse learning objects.
>>
>> .         Is the XOT community best served by assuming a lowest common
>> denominator and then rejecting anything that might rise above that level
of
>> challenge?
>>
>> .         Will the learners who use XOT generated learning objects have a
>> better learning experience if they are challenged more and have to engage
>> more with their learning?
>>
>> .         There is an awareness in the XOT community of the new
>> developments. Expectations have been raised. Do we let down those
>> expectations now?
>>
>> It seems to me that like any group of people XOT users are a diverse
>> group. Just as there will be some who will only use the simplest of pages
>> and may panic at anything a little different, there will also be others
who
>> whilst valuing XOT, would like to be able to do more with it. I remember
>> Ron's reaction when he saw that some of my pages included a "transition"
>> property for images - he thought it should be included with all pages
that
>> offered images. Ron also, independently came up with an idea for a
hotspot
>> image connector page.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have discussed on prior occasions the merits of being able to set up
>> routing in a project or learning object. IMHO this is a significant
feature
>> that currently XOT lacks and that is offered by some competing commercial
>> products.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the end of the day it will be your decision whether to include the
>> connector pages. If you include them, authors will have the opportunity
to
>> choose not to use them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnathan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30 July 2012 10:49, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> These issues are making me seriously question whether to release the
>> connectors as part of toolkits. For standalone developers, then fair
enough,
>> the result is up to you, but there is the possibility for people to
create
>> bad stuff here, and toolkits shouldn't let people make bad stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
>> Johnathan
>>
>> Sent: 27 July 2012 19:28
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> The functionality would not change depending on the page you were on, the
>> functionality of the navigation would apply to the whole learning object.
>>
>>
>>
>> If connector pages are being used to set up specific routes through a
>> project than a historic back button is essential. We can probably manage
>> with a linear next button as the connector pages can be set up so that
the
>> navigation is disabled when on a connector page.
>>
>>
>>
>> Where connector pages are being used to set up routes through a learning
>> object then a project wide menu is counter productive. I would anticipate
>> any project that is using connector pages to set up specific routes
through
>> a project to be implemented using the linear option as it is the only
option
>> that does not implement a project wide menu. Perhaps there needs to be a
new
>> option "Historic" so that all current Linear projects perform as they
always
>> did, but authors can have an option that presents an LO with no start
menu
>> and a historic back button.
>>
>>
>>
>> The user interface will probably appear a little different as the
>> connector pages will disable the navigation and when non-connector pages
are
>> used the option to set navigation on exit of a connector page should be
>> taken to only provide next and back (i.e. historic back) buttons.
>>
>>
>>
>> If a menu is required the connector menu will provide the capability to
>> implement a menu that only offers selected pages, thus restricting access
to
>> only appropriate starting points for different sections of the LO.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can appreciate the concerns that are being expressed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Connector pages present a new paradigm. LOs that use Connector Pages to
>> set up routes through LOs are going to provide a different experience for
>> Xerte users. However since there would normally be limited use of menus
the
>> fact that the back button is historic may pass largely unnoticed by the
>> user.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnathan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27 July 2012 10:58, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > if the behaviour of the forward button changes depending on what you do
>>
>> That would get us onto interfacesfromhell.com. If we ever have to explain
>> how this works to a user, we have failed.
>>
>>
>>
>> What worries me is that at present, you can set the navigation style with
>> rootIcon.setNavigationStyle(style), but to our users, the functionality
in
>> what appears to be the same interface changes between different LOs. This
>> troubles me.
>>
>>
>>
>> In linear pieces, I agree: it should do linear next / prev; in menu
>> without page controls, it works fine too: there are no buttons! When you
use
>> the menu with page controls setting, currently it does the back /next (as
>> opposed to prev / next).
>>
>>
>>
>> The implications are very much with the connectors I think, as it would
be
>> possible for people to make some really terrible decisions if they start
>> changing the functionality based on the type of page you are on. That
MUST
>> NOT happen.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
>>
>> Sent: 26 July 2012 08:55
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> I think this is really tricky to get right.  I can see the argument for
>> historical forward and back working really well on projects with
connector
>> pages but think it could get confusing if the behaviour of the forward
>> button changes depending on what you do.
>>
>>
>>
>> For example, a LO is set up as Menu with controls.  The user reads the
>> first few of pages in a LO using the forward button to navigate to the
next
>> numerical page. They then decide to use the menu the skip ahead several
>> pages.  They realise they have skipped some important information so use
the
>> back button to return to the page they were previously on.  Now they try
to
>> continue navigating through the LO as they had previously by clicking the
>> forward button - but using the historical forward button this will skip
them
>> past several pages again.  The only way for them to get to the pages they
>> missed is to use the menu again.  I think this could be confusing,
>> especially as there's no indication on the menu what pages you had
visited.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure what the answer is but I don't know if historical forwards is
>> necessarily what people would expect to happen, especially when mixed up
>> with linear in certain circumstances.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
>> Johnathan
>>
>> Sent: 25 July 2012 19:45
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> If you go down the two separate types of navigation approach then you
>> would not necessarily  implement the mix of historic and linear next
button.
>>
>>
>>
>> What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else
>> go forward?
>>
>>
>>
>> What I am suggesting is that if you have a historic back button then it
>> makes sense to offer a historic next button so that the navigation
remains
>> within a single paradigm. The idea of providing a linear element to the
next
>> button, only when the user has no legitimate historic next value, is
really
>> to accommodate the difference between Xerte and a web page. Web pages
have
>> links in them to enable you to exit them. Standard Xerte pages do not.
>>
>>
>>
>> If people are going to use the Connector pages they will need the
historic
>> back button. The type of project an author will want to be selecting will
be
>> one that does NOT offer a menu of all the pages. The author is unlikely
to
>> want to provide the end user with a means of bypassing the routes through
>> the learning object that the author creates by using the Connector pages.
>> Giving them access to a menu of all the pages will do just that.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion
>> provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me
>> something is wrong:
>>
>>
>>
>> Then it is my description that is at fault. The simplest way to describe
>> the navigation I am proposing is that it works just like Internet
Explorer
>> or Opera, with the additional feature, if deemed appropriate, that in
>> situations where IE or Opera would show the next button disabled, then in
>> Xerte the next button could remain enabled by offering a link to the next
>> page in the project's linear sequence.
>>
>>
>>
>> The hard part is describing the specific details and rules that apply
that
>> enable the creation of such a navigation system. In use it is intuitive -
it
>> is just the way a web browser works.
>>
>>
>>
>> The current combination we have in Xerte of a historic back button and a
>> purely linear next button is what is likely to throw people.
>>
>>
>>
>> We need the author to be able to implement as a minimum, the current
>> historic back button navigation without also implementing a project wide
>> menu. Better would be to also have a historic next button, so that the
>> historic navigation would be consistent.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnathan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 July 2012 16:38, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think the problem is as you say, the mix between a historical back
>> button and a linear next button. The two (strong) mental models people
will
>> bring are the digital book (linear, prev and fwd); or the browser (back
in
>> history, forward in history); we are kinda mixing them up. In a browser
you
>> navigate with links; here we are navigating with the fwd button.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I've done is put the navigation back to the old way for linear
>> projects; either of the menu options give the back (in history)
>> functionality. Next always goes to the next page.
>>
>>
>>
>> What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else
>> go forward? I think we are screwing with people's mental models here? I'm
>> finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion
provides
>> a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is
>> wrong: this shouldn't need explaining, we will be doing something wrong
if
>> anyone ever asks a question about the navigation system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmm.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
>> Johnathan
>>
>> Sent: 25 July 2012 16:29
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond to this thread, I have
>> been otherwise engaged for most of yesterday and today and before I could
>> respond adequately I needed to check a few things.
>>
>>
>>
>> The standard Xerte project has to date been treated as if you are reading
>> a book. No history just turn to the previous or next page relative to the
>> one you are currently viewing. When you use the TOC you are just opening
the
>> book at a new page. Back and Next are then relative to that new page.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Connector pages introduced a different paradigm for the project. This
>> paradigm required a historical back button. As an example consider a
>> multiple choice connector page. Each of the answer options can link to a
>> sequence of none connector pages, i.e. If the connector page is P1 then
>>
>> option 1 may go to P2 which leads to P3 to P4 and P5 is a redirector page
>> to P10
>>
>> option 2 may go to P6 which leads to P7 to P8 and P9 is a redirector page
>> to P10
>>
>>
>>
>> The historical back is needed to ensure that if you traverse backward
from
>> P8 to P7 to P6 that the next backward action does not take you to P5 but
to
>> P1.
>>
>>
>>
>> This inevitably clashes with the book paradigm when you use the TOC which
>> is what Julian found. It will inevitably feel a little strange to Xerte
>> users who are used to the book paradigm. However it does mirror the way a
>> back button works in a web browser, so in a sense it will be what will be
>> expected by anyone opening a Xerte project for the first time.
>>
>>
>>
>> However browser users will be confused by the Xerte next button, as
>> browsers that offer a next button base their next on the browser history.
>> Such browsers (IE, Opera) appear to operate by building a history and
>> maintaining a pointer as the history is navigated. Whenever a link is
>> followed (rather than a back or next button) the "next" half of the
history
>> is deleted, so that on page exit the current page is added as the most
>> recent page in the history.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there are to be on offer in Xerte a choice between the original
>> navigation or historic navigation then the historic navigation would be
>> improved if it also was reflected in the operation of the next button.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have performed some tests in opera to figure out what is going on and
>> have attached a pdf file to explain everything. The pdf file opens with a
>> worked example  of how a historic navigation that accommodated a back and
>> next button would operate. The last page identifies the rules that would
be
>> required in Xerte to implement such a navigation in the xerte navigation.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps. The example can take a little effort to get your head
>> around, but the actions that need to happen with respect to each button
are,
>> I think pretty straight forward to implement for someone who knows there
way
>> around the appropriate Xerte flash file.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnathan.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 July 2012 10:41, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've done that, need to play around with it and see if it feels better.
>> Opinions welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
Tenney
>>
>> Sent: 25 July 2012 09:29
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> OK. I think I'm going to put the default back to the way it was, and add
a
>> method to the interface calss to allow the developer to chose: that way
it
>> can be linear for linear navigation, and use the history if navigation is
>> menu.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does this sound sensible?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
>>
>> Sent: 25 July 2012 08:27
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> I only realised it did the back to previous page viewed rather than
>> numerical back when doing the testing a couple of weeks ago so I did find
it
>> a bit odd. I think it's because I thought of the LO pages to be like
pages
>> in a book rather than web pages so history back was unexpected.
>>
>>
>>
>> So at the moment does a linear layout have numerical forward and back and
>> menu layout have history back and numerical forward?  If the linear one
has
>> history back I do think this could confuse users when they've changed
page
>> using table of contents.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
Tenney
>>
>> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:35
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> Ah, but then back would have taken me just one page back, and I could go
>> one page forward again.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron
Mitchell
>>
>> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:29
>>
>> To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> But you weren't able to do that previously either?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
Tenney
>>
>> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:16
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> Has it felt right to you whilst testing? Mostly it does feel OK, but the
>> time it gribble me out is when I use the TOC to jump to a page, hit back
(go
>> back to page one) and then can't easily (without re-opening the TOC) get
>> back to the page I was just on (cos there's no 'forward'). It somehow
>> doesn't feel quite right
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron
Mitchell
>>
>> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:08
>>
>> To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it's fine the way it is now with back being history back and next
>> being next numeric page but if you've found inconsistencies with the
history
>> back perhaps it would be better to revert back to what it's always been.
Not
>> sure about author control wouldn't that lead to confusion where sometimes
>> it's history and sometimes it's linear?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
Tenney
>>
>> Sent: 24 July 2012 10:49
>>
>> To: For Xerte technical developers
>>
>> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Back / Next Functionlaity
>>
>>
>>
>> What do you think: we made the back button in the interface go back in
>> history, rather than back in pages: this seems to work well in some
>> situations, but whilst testing, I have hit back several times and not
gone
>> where I expected to, and can't go forward: do you think we should have it
so
>> that the developer can chose which way it works?
>>
>>
>>
>> So, for a linear interface, it works as it did before, going back and
>> forth on page numbers; if it's a menu driven piece, it goes back in
history?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the problem I found in terms of inconsistencies is that forward
>> always takes you next, rather than forward in history when back goes back
in
>> history rather than pages (read that again carefully).
>>
>>
>>
>> Next can't be forward, as it's the main way of getting to the next,
>> unvisited page.
>>
>>
>>
>> This should do what the user expects because it grates when you don't go
>> where you wanted.
>>
>>
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