[Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

[Ron Mitchell]

My personal thoughts... 

Note: Wherever I refer to a destination page I mean a page arrived at from a
connector page.

 

1. I suspect some connector pages will be used far more than others - some
will be popular others a bit too complex for most XOT users

2. I personally wouldn't want to see the connector pages removed now but
having said that I would also like to see Tom's solution in place so that an
XOT admin could decide what page types are shown and what aren't for a given
installation - there are others not relevant for all installations/users and
for new installations an admin might want to only show the basics to begin
with.**

3. I agree the standard navigation buttons should be consistent but I think
a common use of at least some of the connectors would be more interactive
links to non-connector pages (not just connector to connector) and indeed
I'm not sure why there's no longer an option to show only the back button,
or only the forward button, or neither, rather than just the two options
shown below? Most of the time I would expect to only have either back, or
next, not both, enabled on my destination page.



 

4. For the way I would use connectors most often and the way I would
envisage showing others to use them, I don't think the forward button ever
needs to be a history forward button. If it ever needed to be something
other than linear next I would want to disable it and provide the link via
another method e.g. hyperlink or via another connector page. However for
this to work I'd like to see those options restored to the navigation on
exit options. e.g. Back only, Next only, No Navigation.

5. For the back button on a destination page perhaps the Navigate on exit
options should include an extra tick box option: Back History? I don't think
this will ever cause confusion e.g. it will be obvious from the learning
activity that whenever back history has been set by the author clicking back
returns to the previous connector page.

 

6. In short - keep back and next linear except when arriving at a page from
a connector where the author has set that the back should be history back.
But also restore the options to disable next, back or both options.

 

HTH

Ron

 

**(Ideally on a user level basis e.g. beginner/intermediate/advanced but I
guess that's a future wish list item)

 

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan
Sent: 30 July 2012 15:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

I hope I have positioned this so that there is no additional scrolling
required :-)

 

I don't want to debate against you, I want to work with you to find a way
forward :-)

 

Connector pages can manage without a historical next.

 

The lack of a historical back button is only a problem when you use a
mixture of connector and none connector pages and want to set up specific
routes through the project. This is because the back button could enable the
learner to step "off the route" (which would not be possible with a
historical back button). However if a historical back button is deemed
inappropriate then it may be possible for the learning object author to
avoid the issue by careful use of the Connector pages. If the author ensures
that each branch of a "route" starts with a connector page e.g. Plain Text
Connector offering a link to the first none connector page in the sequence
for that branch, then the learner will not be able to go back to a page off
route as the linear back button will take them back to the plain text
connector that started the branch, which would have navigation disabled. It
is not as elegant as a historic back button as a solution, but it would work
and it would avoid the concerns of having navigation buttons that worked in
different ways.

 

So we could get away with just linear navigation and still use the Connector
pages.

 

How does that sound?

 

Kind regards

 

Johnathan

 

On 30 July 2012 13:54, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

I think the problem is the navigation buttons. No one is debating that
routing or branching through content might be useful. But if the interface
suddenly starts doing things differently / inconsistently, that is a
problem.

 

Right now, linear navigation works fine: in linear mode, it works; in menu
with page controls, it also works I think; and in menu only, you don't see
the buttons, so it's not a problem. You hit the TOC to go to the menu; you
go next and back through the content. That is consistent, predictable. The
buttons always do the same things.

 

During testing, the historical back kept surprising me with what happened.
That tells me there is a problem with it.

 

Having a next button that is sometimes a next button and sometimes a fwd
button worries me. 

 

I have always mandated doing branching by jumping to other LOs for the sub
sections.

 

I have spent a lot of time here at the University re-working content that
had crazy Authorware-era navigation systems, branching etc. In many, it was
impossible to find your way back to the information you knew was there, but
you couldn't remember how you got there.

 

Users will not differentiate between 'linear' and 'menu' driven content, to
them it is just content, and they will expect the buttons to do the same
thing every time they click them.

 

So, without the connectors in the picture, we don't really have a problem. I
don't have  problem with the connectors per se, but I do have a problem with
the implications for an interface that people already know and use.

 

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan


Sent: 30 July 2012 12:58

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

Hello Julian,

 

There is always the possibility for people to create bad stuff. Some of the
worst "e-learning" material I have come across has consisted of a series of
pages of information with the odd quiz thrown in on the assumption that this
will somehow "test learning". I don't think there is an e-learning
development tool on the planet that can prevent people form creating "bad
stuff". However if a software tool is limited in its features it can prevent
the creation of more engaging learning objects. 

 

The ability to offer branching (or connections if you prefer) can allow for
the development of learning objects that require users to think and make
decisions (including mistakes) and then learn from the results of those
decisions. But any development tool that supports this feature will also
require of the author that they think about how they set up their routing
through the project or learning object. 

 

I don't think that this is about standalone Xerte V XOT in that the
connector pages do not require someone to have access to the structure of
the page.

.         The people who are happy with sequential projects simply won't
bother with the Connector pages.

.         Other users will use the simpler connector pages to flag up pages
of interest or provide sub menus, without actually defining specific routes
through a project. I am thinking here of the menu connector page, hotspot
image connector and plain text connector.

.         Those who want to set up specific routing will start making use of
the tab navigator connector and the redirector connector.

.         It may take some time before anyone embraces the Scenario
connector. But the reaction last September to the demo of the prototype page
suggests that there will be some people out there who will be excited by it
and will want to make use of it. I think that once a few working examples
that use the Scenario page are produced, then interest in the page will
grow. However initially people will have to get their head around what it
does and how they can make use of it.

It seems to me there are a couple of issues that are causing the main
concern.

1.      The Navigation issue - i.e. the need for a historic back button when
projects are being created that use Connector pages to set up specific
routes through a project. Perhaps what might help with this is if the back
button icon could change to indicate when a project was using an "historic"
back button. This would avoid learner confusion caused by the back button
doing something unexpected. Maybe a back arrow with three overlapping
rectangles (a bit like the way the drag-able items stack in the time-line
matching pairs page.) would be enough to convey the idea.

2.      The complexity of some of the pages, in particular the tabbed
Navigator Connector and the Scenario Connector. There is documentation to
support the use of these pages. There are already in Xerte and XOT pages
that are not intuitive to use e.g. the Interactive Diagram (customHotspots)
which works differently from any other page. The mapstraction page (I have
still not figured this one out yet!) There is no documentation to support
their use.

 

XOT has captured a large audience. Will it really frighten someone off XOT
if they can't cope with a particular page? Or will they just ignore that
page type in future and stick with what they are comfy with? Meanwhile those
who are eager for more features will start producing even more interesting
and diverse learning objects.

.         Is the XOT community best served by assuming a lowest common
denominator and then rejecting anything that might rise above that level of
challenge?

.         Will the learners who use XOT generated learning objects have a
better learning experience if they are challenged more and have to engage
more with their learning?

.         There is an awareness in the XOT community of the new
developments. Expectations have been raised. Do we let down those
expectations now?

It seems to me that like any group of people XOT users are a diverse group.
Just as there will be some who will only use the simplest of pages and may
panic at anything a little different, there will also be others who whilst
valuing XOT, would like to be able to do more with it. I remember Ron's
reaction when he saw that some of my pages included a "transition" property
for images - he thought it should be included with all pages that offered
images. Ron also, independently came up with an idea for a hotspot image
connector page.

 

We have discussed on prior occasions the merits of being able to set up
routing in a project or learning object. IMHO this is a significant feature
that currently XOT lacks and that is offered by some competing commercial
products.

 

At the end of the day it will be your decision whether to include the
connector pages. If you include them, authors will have the opportunity to
choose not to use them. 

 

Kind regards

 

Johnathan

 

 

On 30 July 2012 10:49, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

 

These issues are making me seriously question whether to release the
connectors as part of toolkits. For standalone developers, then fair enough,
the result is up to you, but there is the possibility for people to create
bad stuff here, and toolkits shouldn't let people make bad stuff.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 27 July 2012 19:28

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

The functionality would not change depending on the page you were on, the
functionality of the navigation would apply to the whole learning object.

 

If connector pages are being used to set up specific routes through a
project than a historic back button is essential. We can probably manage
with a linear next button as the connector pages can be set up so that the
navigation is disabled when on a connector page.

 

Where connector pages are being used to set up routes through a learning
object then a project wide menu is counter productive. I would anticipate
any project that is using connector pages to set up specific routes through
a project to be implemented using the linear option as it is the only option
that does not implement a project wide menu. Perhaps there needs to be a new
option "Historic" so that all current Linear projects perform as they always
did, but authors can have an option that presents an LO with no start menu
and a historic back button.

 

The user interface will probably appear a little different as the connector
pages will disable the navigation and when non-connector pages are used the
option to set navigation on exit of a connector page should be taken to only
provide next and back (i.e. historic back) buttons.

 

If a menu is required the connector menu will provide the capability to
implement a menu that only offers selected pages, thus restricting access to
only appropriate starting points for different sections of the LO.

 

I can appreciate the concerns that are being expressed.

 

Connector pages present a new paradigm. LOs that use Connector Pages to set
up routes through LOs are going to provide a different experience for Xerte
users. However since there would normally be limited use of menus the fact
that the back button is historic may pass largely unnoticed by the user. 

 

Kind regards

 

Johnathan

 

On 27 July 2012 10:58, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

> if the behaviour of the forward button changes depending on what you do

That would get us onto interfacesfromhell.com. If we ever have to explain
how this works to a user, we have failed.

 

What worries me is that at present, you can set the navigation style with
rootIcon.setNavigationStyle(style), but to our users, the functionality in
what appears to be the same interface changes between different LOs. This
troubles me.

 

In linear pieces, I agree: it should do linear next / prev; in menu without
page controls, it works fine too: there are no buttons! When you use the
menu with page controls setting, currently it does the back /next (as
opposed to prev / next).

 

The implications are very much with the connectors I think, as it would be
possible for people to make some really terrible decisions if they start
changing the functionality based on the type of page you are on. That MUST
NOT happen.

 

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross

Sent: 26 July 2012 08:55

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

I think this is really tricky to get right.  I can see the argument for
historical forward and back working really well on projects with connector
pages but think it could get confusing if the behaviour of the forward
button changes depending on what you do.

 

For example, a LO is set up as Menu with controls.  The user reads the first
few of pages in a LO using the forward button to navigate to the next
numerical page. They then decide to use the menu the skip ahead several
pages.  They realise they have skipped some important information so use the
back button to return to the page they were previously on.  Now they try to
continue navigating through the LO as they had previously by clicking the
forward button - but using the historical forward button this will skip them
past several pages again.  The only way for them to get to the pages they
missed is to use the menu again.  I think this could be confusing,
especially as there's no indication on the menu what pages you had visited.

 

Not sure what the answer is but I don't know if historical forwards is
necessarily what people would expect to happen, especially when mixed up
with linear in certain circumstances.

 

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 25 July 2012 19:45

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

If you go down the two separate types of navigation approach then you would
not necessarily  implement the mix of historic and linear next button.

 

What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else go
forward? 

 

What I am suggesting is that if you have a historic back button then it
makes sense to offer a historic next button so that the navigation remains
within a single paradigm. The idea of providing a linear element to the next
button, only when the user has no legitimate historic next value, is really
to accommodate the difference between Xerte and a web page. Web pages have
links in them to enable you to exit them. Standard Xerte pages do not.

 

If people are going to use the Connector pages they will need the historic
back button. The type of project an author will want to be selecting will be
one that does NOT offer a menu of all the pages. The author is unlikely to
want to provide the end user with a means of bypassing the routes through
the learning object that the author creates by using the Connector pages.
Giving them access to a menu of all the pages will do just that.

 

I'm finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion
provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me
something is wrong: 

 

Then it is my description that is at fault. The simplest way to describe the
navigation I am proposing is that it works just like Internet Explorer or
Opera, with the additional feature, if deemed appropriate, that in
situations where IE or Opera would show the next button disabled, then in
Xerte the next button could remain enabled by offering a link to the next
page in the project's linear sequence.

 

The hard part is describing the specific details and rules that apply that
enable the creation of such a navigation system. In use it is intuitive - it
is just the way a web browser works.

 

The current combination we have in Xerte of a historic back button and a
purely linear next button is what is likely to throw people.

 

We need the author to be able to implement as a minimum, the current
historic back button navigation without also implementing a project wide
menu. Better would be to also have a historic next button, so that the
historic navigation would be consistent.

 

Kind regards

 

Johnathan

 

On 25 July 2012 16:38, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

I think the problem is as you say, the mix between a historical back button
and a linear next button. The two (strong) mental models people will bring
are the digital book (linear, prev and fwd); or the browser (back in
history, forward in history); we are kinda mixing them up. In a browser you
navigate with links; here we are navigating with the fwd button. 

 

What I've done is put the navigation back to the old way for linear
projects; either of the menu options give the back (in history)
functionality. Next always goes to the next page.

 

What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else go
forward? I think we are screwing with people's mental models here? I'm
finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion provides
a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is
wrong: this shouldn't need explaining, we will be doing something wrong if
anyone ever asks a question about the navigation system.

 

Hmm.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
Johnathan

Sent: 25 July 2012 16:29

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

Hi folks,

 

I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond to this thread, I have
been otherwise engaged for most of yesterday and today and before I could
respond adequately I needed to check a few things.

 

The standard Xerte project has to date been treated as if you are reading a
book. No history just turn to the previous or next page relative to the one
you are currently viewing. When you use the TOC you are just opening the
book at a new page. Back and Next are then relative to that new page.

 

The Connector pages introduced a different paradigm for the project. This
paradigm required a historical back button. As an example consider a
multiple choice connector page. Each of the answer options can link to a
sequence of none connector pages, i.e. If the connector page is P1 then 

option 1 may go to P2 which leads to P3 to P4 and P5 is a redirector page to
P10

option 2 may go to P6 which leads to P7 to P8 and P9 is a redirector page to
P10

 

The historical back is needed to ensure that if you traverse backward from
P8 to P7 to P6 that the next backward action does not take you to P5 but to
P1.

 

This inevitably clashes with the book paradigm when you use the TOC which is
what Julian found. It will inevitably feel a little strange to Xerte users
who are used to the book paradigm. However it does mirror the way a back
button works in a web browser, so in a sense it will be what will be
expected by anyone opening a Xerte project for the first time.

 

However browser users will be confused by the Xerte next button, as browsers
that offer a next button base their next on the browser history. Such
browsers (IE, Opera) appear to operate by building a history and maintaining
a pointer as the history is navigated. Whenever a link is followed (rather
than a back or next button) the "next" half of the history is deleted, so
that on page exit the current page is added as the most recent page in the
history.

 

If there are to be on offer in Xerte a choice between the original
navigation or historic navigation then the historic navigation would be
improved if it also was reflected in the operation of the next button.

 

I have performed some tests in opera to figure out what is going on and have
attached a pdf file to explain everything. The pdf file opens with a worked
example  of how a historic navigation that accommodated a back and next
button would operate. The last page identifies the rules that would be
required in Xerte to implement such a navigation in the xerte navigation.

 

I hope this helps. The example can take a little effort to get your head
around, but the actions that need to happen with respect to each button are,
I think pretty straight forward to implement for someone who knows there way
around the appropriate Xerte flash file.

 

Kind regards

 

Johnathan.

 

On 25 July 2012 10:41, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

I've done that, need to play around with it and see if it feels better.
Opinions welcome.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 25 July 2012 09:29

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

OK. I think I'm going to put the default back to the way it was, and add a
method to the interface calss to allow the developer to chose: that way it
can be linear for linear navigation, and use the history if navigation is
menu.

 

Does this sound sensible?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross

Sent: 25 July 2012 08:27

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

I only realised it did the back to previous page viewed rather than
numerical back when doing the testing a couple of weeks ago so I did find it
a bit odd. I think it's because I thought of the LO pages to be like pages
in a book rather than web pages so history back was unexpected.

 

So at the moment does a linear layout have numerical forward and back and
menu layout have history back and numerical forward?  If the linear one has
history back I do think this could confuse users when they've changed page
using table of contents.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 24 July 2012 11:35

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

Ah, but then back would have taken me just one page back, and I could go one
page forward again.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 24 July 2012 11:29

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

But you weren't able to do that previously either?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 24 July 2012 11:16

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

Has it felt right to you whilst testing? Mostly it does feel OK, but the
time it gribble me out is when I use the TOC to jump to a page, hit back (go
back to page one) and then can't easily (without re-opening the TOC) get
back to the page I was just on (cos there's no 'forward'). It somehow
doesn't feel quite right

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 24 July 2012 11:08

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

 

I think it's fine the way it is now with back being history back and next
being next numeric page but if you've found inconsistencies with the history
back perhaps it would be better to revert back to what it's always been. Not
sure about author control wouldn't that lead to confusion where sometimes
it's history and sometimes it's linear?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 24 July 2012 10:49

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Back / Next Functionlaity

 

What do you think: we made the back button in the interface go back in
history, rather than back in pages: this seems to work well in some
situations, but whilst testing, I have hit back several times and not gone
where I expected to, and can't go forward: do you think we should have it so
that the developer can chose which way it works?

 

So, for a linear interface, it works as it did before, going back and forth
on page numbers; if it's a menu driven piece, it goes back in history?

 

I think the problem I found in terms of inconsistencies is that forward
always takes you next, rather than forward in history when back goes back in
history rather than pages (read that again carefully).

 

Next can't be forward, as it's the main way of getting to the next,
unvisited page.

 

This should do what the user expects because it grates when you don't go
where you wanted.

 

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