[Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

[Julian Tenney]

It still comes back to the navigation system, that's the issue here.


From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 30 July 2012 14:08
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Further to my other reply,

Would it help if I changed the description of the Scenario Connector and Tabbed Navigator Connector pages in their xwds to include a "health warning" e.g. "This page type is designed to enable the creation of complex interactions, please read the supporting documentation before using this page type"

Or some similar form or words.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 30 July 2012 10:49, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
These issues are making me seriously question whether to release the connectors as part of toolkits. For standalone developers, then fair enough, the result is up to you, but there is the possibility for people to create bad stuff here, and toolkits shouldn't let people make bad stuff.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 27 July 2012 19:28

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

The functionality would not change depending on the page you were on, the functionality of the navigation would apply to the whole learning object.

If connector pages are being used to set up specific routes through a project than a historic back button is essential. We can probably manage with a linear next button as the connector pages can be set up so that the navigation is disabled when on a connector page.

Where connector pages are being used to set up routes through a learning object then a project wide menu is counter productive. I would anticipate any project that is using connector pages to set up specific routes through a project to be implemented using the linear option as it is the only option that does not implement a project wide menu. Perhaps there needs to be a new option "Historic" so that all current Linear projects perform as they always did, but authors can have an option that presents an LO with no start menu and a historic back button.

The user interface will probably appear a little different as the connector pages will disable the navigation and when non-connector pages are used the option to set navigation on exit of a connector page should be taken to only provide next and back (i.e. historic back) buttons.

If a menu is required the connector menu will provide the capability to implement a menu that only offers selected pages, thus restricting access to only appropriate starting points for different sections of the LO.

I can appreciate the concerns that are being expressed.

Connector pages present a new paradigm. LOs that use Connector Pages to set up routes through LOs are going to provide a different experience for Xerte users. However since there would normally be limited use of menus the fact that the back button is historic may pass largely unnoticed by the user.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 27 July 2012 10:58, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
> if the behaviour of the forward button changes depending on what you do
That would get us onto interfacesfromhell.com<http://interfacesfromhell.com>. If we ever have to explain how this works to a user, we have failed.

What worries me is that at present, you can set the navigation style with rootIcon.setNavigationStyle(style), but to our users, the functionality in what appears to be the same interface changes between different LOs. This troubles me.

In linear pieces, I agree: it should do linear next / prev; in menu without page controls, it works fine too: there are no buttons! When you use the menu with page controls setting, currently it does the back /next (as opposed to prev / next).

The implications are very much with the connectors I think, as it would be possible for people to make some really terrible decisions if they start changing the functionality based on the type of page you are on. That MUST NOT happen.


From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 26 July 2012 08:55

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

I think this is really tricky to get right.  I can see the argument for historical forward and back working really well on projects with connector pages but think it could get confusing if the behaviour of the forward button changes depending on what you do.

For example, a LO is set up as Menu with controls.  The user reads the first few of pages in a LO using the forward button to navigate to the next numerical page. They then decide to use the menu the skip ahead several pages.  They realise they have skipped some important information so use the back button to return to the page they were previously on.  Now they try to continue navigating through the LO as they had previously by clicking the forward button - but using the historical forward button this will skip them past several pages again.  The only way for them to get to the pages they missed is to use the menu again.  I think this could be confusing, especially as there's no indication on the menu what pages you had visited.

Not sure what the answer is but I don't know if historical forwards is necessarily what people would expect to happen, especially when mixed up with linear in certain circumstances.


From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 25 July 2012 19:45
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

If you go down the two separate types of navigation approach then you would not necessarily  implement the mix of historic and linear next button.

What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else go forward?

What I am suggesting is that if you have a historic back button then it makes sense to offer a historic next button so that the navigation remains within a single paradigm. The idea of providing a linear element to the next button, only when the user has no legitimate historic next value, is really to accommodate the difference between Xerte and a web page. Web pages have links in them to enable you to exit them. Standard Xerte pages do not.

If people are going to use the Connector pages they will need the historic back button. The type of project an author will want to be selecting will be one that does NOT offer a menu of all the pages. The author is unlikely to want to provide the end user with a means of bypassing the routes through the learning object that the author creates by using the Connector pages. Giving them access to a menu of all the pages will do just that.

I'm finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is wrong:

Then it is my description that is at fault. The simplest way to describe the navigation I am proposing is that it works just like Internet Explorer or Opera, with the additional feature, if deemed appropriate, that in situations where IE or Opera would show the next button disabled, then in Xerte the next button could remain enabled by offering a link to the next page in the project's linear sequence.

The hard part is describing the specific details and rules that apply that enable the creation of such a navigation system. In use it is intuitive - it is just the way a web browser works.

The current combination we have in Xerte of a historic back button and a purely linear next button is what is likely to throw people.

We need the author to be able to implement as a minimum, the current historic back button navigation without also implementing a project wide menu. Better would be to also have a historic next button, so that the historic navigation would be consistent.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 25 July 2012 16:38, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
I think the problem is as you say, the mix between a historical back button and a linear next button. The two (strong) mental models people will bring are the digital book (linear, prev and fwd); or the browser (back in history, forward in history); we are kinda mixing them up. In a browser you navigate with links; here we are navigating with the fwd button.

What I've done is put the navigation back to the old way for linear projects; either of the menu options give the back (in history) functionality. Next always goes to the next page.

What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else go forward? I think we are screwing with people's mental models here? I'm finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is wrong: this shouldn't need explaining, we will be doing something wrong if anyone ever asks a question about the navigation system.

Hmm.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 25 July 2012 16:29

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Hi folks,

I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond to this thread, I have been otherwise engaged for most of yesterday and today and before I could respond adequately I needed to check a few things.

The standard Xerte project has to date been treated as if you are reading a book. No history just turn to the previous or next page relative to the one you are currently viewing. When you use the TOC you are just opening the book at a new page. Back and Next are then relative to that new page.

The Connector pages introduced a different paradigm for the project. This paradigm required a historical back button. As an example consider a multiple choice connector page. Each of the answer options can link to a sequence of none connector pages, i.e. If the connector page is P1 then
option 1 may go to P2 which leads to P3 to P4 and P5 is a redirector page to P10
option 2 may go to P6 which leads to P7 to P8 and P9 is a redirector page to P10

The historical back is needed to ensure that if you traverse backward from P8 to P7 to P6 that the next backward action does not take you to P5 but to P1.

This inevitably clashes with the book paradigm when you use the TOC which is what Julian found. It will inevitably feel a little strange to Xerte users who are used to the book paradigm. However it does mirror the way a back button works in a web browser, so in a sense it will be what will be expected by anyone opening a Xerte project for the first time.

However browser users will be confused by the Xerte next button, as browsers that offer a next button base their next on the browser history. Such browsers (IE, Opera) appear to operate by building a history and maintaining a pointer as the history is navigated. Whenever a link is followed (rather than a back or next button) the "next" half of the history is deleted, so that on page exit the current page is added as the most recent page in the history.

If there are to be on offer in Xerte a choice between the original navigation or historic navigation then the historic navigation would be improved if it also was reflected in the operation of the next button.

I have performed some tests in opera to figure out what is going on and have attached a pdf file to explain everything. The pdf file opens with a worked example  of how a historic navigation that accommodated a back and next button would operate. The last page identifies the rules that would be required in Xerte to implement such a navigation in the xerte navigation.

I hope this helps. The example can take a little effort to get your head around, but the actions that need to happen with respect to each button are, I think pretty straight forward to implement for someone who knows there way around the appropriate Xerte flash file.

Kind regards

Johnathan.

On 25 July 2012 10:41, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
I've done that, need to play around with it and see if it feels better. Opinions welcome.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 25 July 2012 09:29

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

OK. I think I'm going to put the default back to the way it was, and add a method to the interface calss to allow the developer to chose: that way it can be linear for linear navigation, and use the history if navigation is menu.

Does this sound sensible?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 25 July 2012 08:27
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

I only realised it did the back to previous page viewed rather than numerical back when doing the testing a couple of weeks ago so I did find it a bit odd. I think it's because I thought of the LO pages to be like pages in a book rather than web pages so history back was unexpected.

So at the moment does a linear layout have numerical forward and back and menu layout have history back and numerical forward?  If the linear one has history back I do think this could confuse users when they've changed page using table of contents.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:35
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Ah, but then back would have taken me just one page back, and I could go one page forward again...

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:29
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

But you weren't able to do that previously either?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Has it felt right to you whilst testing? Mostly it does feel OK, but the time it gribble me out is when I use the TOC to jump to a page, hit back (go back to page one) and then can't easily (without re-opening the TOC) get back to the page I was just on (cos there's no 'forward'). It somehow doesn't feel quite right

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:08
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

I think it's fine the way it is now with back being history back and next being next numeric page but if you've found inconsistencies with the history back perhaps it would be better to revert back to what it's always been. Not sure about author control wouldn't that lead to confusion where sometimes it's history and sometimes it's linear?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 24 July 2012 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Back / Next Functionlaity

What do you think: we made the back button in the interface go back in history, rather than back in pages: this seems to work well in some situations, but whilst testing, I have hit back several times and not gone where I expected to, and can't go forward: do you think we should have it so that the developer can chose which way it works?

So, for a linear interface, it works as it did before, going back and forth on page numbers; if it's a menu driven piece, it goes back in history?

I think the problem I found in terms of inconsistencies is that forward always takes you next, rather than forward in history when back goes back in history rather than pages (read that again carefully).

Next can't be forward, as it's the main way of getting to the next, unvisited page.

This should do what the user expects because it grates when you don't go where you wanted.


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