[Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

[Fay Cross]

At the moment the HTML5 version uses just the numerical forwards and back as I didn't realise the Flash version did anything other than this until last week.  I will make sure it matches what we decide for the Flash version though.

The browser forward and back buttons won't change the page you view in the HTML5 version as the page just displays the interface with the contents loading inside it - not loading a whole new page when you use the navigation

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 25 July 2012 16:50
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Is it further complicated by how the navigation will work with xenith? Is that going to be more like the browser navigation where back is history back?
Just thinking out loud....

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 25 July 2012 16:39
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

I think the problem is as you say, the mix between a historical back button and a linear next button. The two (strong) mental models people will bring are the digital book (linear, prev and fwd); or the browser (back in history, forward in history); we are kinda mixing them up. In a browser you navigate with links; here we are navigating with the fwd button.

What I've done is put the navigation back to the old way for linear projects; either of the menu options give the back (in history) functionality. Next always goes to the next page.

What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else go forward? I think we are screwing with people's mental models here? I'm finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is wrong: this shouldn't need explaining, we will be doing something wrong if anyone ever asks a question about the navigation system.

Hmm.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp Johnathan
Sent: 25 July 2012 16:29
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Hi folks,

I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond to this thread, I have been otherwise engaged for most of yesterday and today and before I could respond adequately I needed to check a few things.

The standard Xerte project has to date been treated as if you are reading a book. No history just turn to the previous or next page relative to the one you are currently viewing. When you use the TOC you are just opening the book at a new page. Back and Next are then relative to that new page.

The Connector pages introduced a different paradigm for the project. This paradigm required a historical back button. As an example consider a multiple choice connector page. Each of the answer options can link to a sequence of none connector pages, i.e. If the connector page is P1 then
option 1 may go to P2 which leads to P3 to P4 and P5 is a redirector page to P10
option 2 may go to P6 which leads to P7 to P8 and P9 is a redirector page to P10

The historical back is needed to ensure that if you traverse backward from P8 to P7 to P6 that the next backward action does not take you to P5 but to P1.

This inevitably clashes with the book paradigm when you use the TOC which is what Julian found. It will inevitably feel a little strange to Xerte users who are used to the book paradigm. However it does mirror the way a back button works in a web browser, so in a sense it will be what will be expected by anyone opening a Xerte project for the first time.

However browser users will be confused by the Xerte next button, as browsers that offer a next button base their next on the browser history. Such browsers (IE, Opera) appear to operate by building a history and maintaining a pointer as the history is navigated. Whenever a link is followed (rather than a back or next button) the "next" half of the history is deleted, so that on page exit the current page is added as the most recent page in the history.

If there are to be on offer in Xerte a choice between the original navigation or historic navigation then the historic navigation would be improved if it also was reflected in the operation of the next button.

I have performed some tests in opera to figure out what is going on and have attached a pdf file to explain everything. The pdf file opens with a worked example  of how a historic navigation that accommodated a back and next button would operate. The last page identifies the rules that would be required in Xerte to implement such a navigation in the xerte navigation.

I hope this helps. The example can take a little effort to get your head around, but the actions that need to happen with respect to each button are, I think pretty straight forward to implement for someone who knows there way around the appropriate Xerte flash file.

Kind regards

Johnathan.

On 25 July 2012 10:41, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
I've done that, need to play around with it and see if it feels better. Opinions welcome.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 25 July 2012 09:29

To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

OK. I think I'm going to put the default back to the way it was, and add a method to the interface calss to allow the developer to chose: that way it can be linear for linear navigation, and use the history if navigation is menu.

Does this sound sensible?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Fay Cross
Sent: 25 July 2012 08:27
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

I only realised it did the back to previous page viewed rather than numerical back when doing the testing a couple of weeks ago so I did find it a bit odd. I think it's because I thought of the LO pages to be like pages in a book rather than web pages so history back was unexpected.

So at the moment does a linear layout have numerical forward and back and menu layout have history back and numerical forward?  If the linear one has history back I do think this could confuse users when they've changed page using table of contents.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:35
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Ah, but then back would have taken me just one page back, and I could go one page forward again...

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:29
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

But you weren't able to do that previously either?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

Has it felt right to you whilst testing? Mostly it does feel OK, but the time it gribble me out is when I use the TOC to jump to a page, hit back (go back to page one) and then can't easily (without re-opening the TOC) get back to the page I was just on (cos there's no 'forward'). It somehow doesn't feel quite right

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 24 July 2012 11:08
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity

I think it's fine the way it is now with back being history back and next being next numeric page but if you've found inconsistencies with the history back perhaps it would be better to revert back to what it's always been. Not sure about author control wouldn't that lead to confusion where sometimes it's history and sometimes it's linear?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 24 July 2012 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Back / Next Functionlaity

What do you think: we made the back button in the interface go back in history, rather than back in pages: this seems to work well in some situations, but whilst testing, I have hit back several times and not gone where I expected to, and can't go forward: do you think we should have it so that the developer can chose which way it works?

So, for a linear interface, it works as it did before, going back and forth on page numbers; if it's a menu driven piece, it goes back in history?

I think the problem I found in terms of inconsistencies is that forward always takes you next, rather than forward in history when back goes back in history rather than pages (read that again carefully).

Next can't be forward, as it's the main way of getting to the next, unvisited page.

This should do what the user expects because it grates when you don't go where you wanted.


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