[Xerte-dev] Re: Goal

Thu Apr 26 15:42:37 BST 2012

I think Dave and Tom's comments are illustrative of the wider point I am
trying to make. Every individual is unique. They bring their own unique
experience to bear on anything new and interpret it accordingly. Dave's
reference to "persistent" makes perfect sense to me in the context of how
he explains it in relation to having read my description of the "Display
Text". However it makes little sense to me in terms of what the "Display
Text" is in XOT. The meaning that Dave took from my description was not the
meaning that I was seeking to convey. My communication was at fault.

Whatever approach you take will meet some peoples needs and not others.
What makes sense for one person does not make sense for another. The XOT
community is not a single entity with a common understanding. It is
composed of thousands of individuals, some of whom will be relatively new
to XOT and others who will have varying degrees of experience. There will
be people who are apprehensive about anything new whilst others will be
excited by change. The very pages that might be thought to be at risk of
frightening some people off will be the same pages that others are eager to
get to grips with.

The display text / language text or whatever you chose to call it is a side
issue. If you don't like the current approach then the most sensible fall
back is to place all the text in the main form flagged as language text.
But the current situation is entirely consistent with a number of pages
that already exist in XOT that do not display correctly until you add some
additional data. Try creating a quiz, in the current (not beta) version of
XOT and then preview your page. You will see "undefined" against the places
where the options are. It's not a problem, just a feature of the page. Like
the display text block it is resolved by adding the appropriate child
elements. No one has a problem with that.

My main point is that in a situation in which different people will have
different expectations it is inevitable that some people will find
themselves confused with how a page operates, either because the page is
new, or the user is new to XOT. Most applications provide some kind of help
to assist the user to overcome any issues they have with the software.

I believe that a key part of making XOT intuitive is to provide a facility
to deliver a simple help file that the author can access for the page they
are trying to use. This could go a long way to answering questions like,
What does the page do? What does this field do? Any common gotchas with the
page. Once in place it would become part of the user's "model" of how XOT
operates. When a new page came out the user would expect a help file to be
available for them to refer to if they had any difficulty understanding the
page.

The connector pages are not particularly advanced, they are just a new
concept being made available in a software environment that has no way of
explaining to the user what that concept is or how it could be applied.
When Julian asked in an earlier post "what does the Inventory page do?" It
was a valid question but the only place you can put a very limited answer
is in the Page description in the xwd. There is no where currently in XOT
where the user can discover how to make use of that page. This may help to
increase the demand for training courses in how to use XOT. But one could
argue that if a product needs a training course before you can use it then
it is neither intuitive or FWS.

Kind regards

Johnathan

On 26 April 2012 11:42, Ron Mitchell <ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk> wrote:

> > I think that we are all working towards the same end - that of
> enhancing XOT and Xerte whilst keeping the users on board and happy.<
>
>
>
> I think we all agree here and all your work on this Jonathan is clear for
> all to see and very impressive!
>
> However Xerte users aren't the issue here it's the typical XOT users and
> more specifically the majority of XOT users who are teachers/lecturers and
> in a growing number of cases learners. A lot of time and effort has gone
> into promoting XOT and encouraging these users and I think Tom and Inge
> have been doing the same with their communities. I'm sure we all know this
> and there are some that are vaguely aware of what's coming in the new
> release and exited by the opportunities afforded by these developments. But
> the majority are still getting to grips with what was there before and we
> want to keep both categories of users happy especially the majority. I
> think we can do this with a few changes.
>
>
>
> >So what do we do about display text?
>
> We could
> 1. Remove the "display text" child elements and put the display text
> fields in the top level form flagged as "language" - people still won't
> know what to do with it, but they will probably miss seeing it anyway.
> 2. Keep the "display text" child but add a hidden copy of the same data in
> the page's new nodes entry, so that the page works without adding the
> "display text" child.
> 3. Leave things as they are and let people know in the new release that
> they now have access to the text that used to be built into the model
> files, if they want to change it, but otherwise they can leave it as it is.
> It is a feature of the new release.<
>
>
>
> I personally think 1 or 2 are the best options here and the main think is
> to ensure the pages work without these options needing to be added or
> changed. e.g. at the moment with the hotpot image connector items like the
> close button aren't positioned correctly without the display text page
> being added.
>
>
>
> I'm still testing and will report back later but the other question I
> think is whether we keep the new "connectors" menu or have an "advanced"
> menu or even "Community" menu where all non-Nottingham pages appear?
>
>
>
> Having an advanced menu and moving the more complex page types there
> (including perhaps the Interactive Diagram page) at least makes it obvious
> and clear that anyone attempting to use those pages realise that they are
> categorised as advanced. I agree with Julian that there is a balance to be
> had where previously there was arguably only one or two pages that we might
> categorise as advanced whereas now we have quite a few I think.
>
>
>
> HTH
>
> Ron
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Kemp Johnathan
> *Sent:* 26 April 2012 11:00
>
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Goal
>
>
>
> The 'displaytext' child really confused me: I had no idea what to do with
> it, and I know that for some people, that will be very off putting, so it's
> remembering the FWS mantra
>
>
>
> I think that we are all working towards the same end - that of enhancing
> XOT and Xerte whilst keeping the users on board and happy.
>
>
>
> Recent events, like Fay's comment regarding some documentation for the
> Interactive Diagram (customHotspot) page, Julian's experience with the
> "display text" child, and my own experiences in coming to grips with the
> Interactive Diagram page (if my memory is correct I think Julian told me
> how to use it in a response to my posting to the mail shortly after it
> first came out ) and the Mapstraction and JMOL pages which I have never got
> to work, have lead me to re-think the problem. I can't help feeling that
> "keep it simple" is not the problem, but rather an attempt at a solution to
> an unstated problem. I think the underlying problem is about "keeping it
> intuitive".
>
>
>
> In general something that is simple ought also to result in it being
> intuitive. But the Interactive Diagram page is demonstrably counter
> intuitive, though very simple to use. This is not meant as a criticism. The
> specific context of XOT, where there are multiple examples of pages that
> work by adding elements to the page's structure in the project tree e.g.
> adding a question to a quiz; adding an option to a question; adding a
> hotspot in the Hotspot Image page; creates for the user a model of how
> things work. Intuition then expects other pages to work in a similar way.
> It comes as a surprise then when a page that clearly is about adding
> hotspots offers no feature in the wizard to add a hotspot (it's all done by
> editing the drawing). This does not make the page a bad, poor or
> inappropriate page. It's a damn good page. It is also easy to use, but only
> after you understand how it works.
>
>
>
> The "display text" child is simplicity itself. It is entirely consistent
> with other Xerte pages in that it is presented in the wizard as a child
> item and added just like any other child item. The problem appears to be
> that for Julian it just did not make any sense - "I had no idea what to do
> with it". Many other pages have a new language check box in the wizard. No
> one has had a problem yet with them, probably because they haven't noticed
> it or have ignored it. But it is just another way of dealing with the same
> issue.
>
>
>
> "Display text" is the term I have used, as it made the most sense to me,
> for all the text contained in a page that does not need to change across
> multiple instances of that page type. It is the label on a button, the
> phrase "question 1 of 8" etc. All this text used to reside in the code of
> the model file. But to enable XOT to be translated into different languages
> it had to come out of the model file. It could have been hidden inside the
> xwd file with no option to edit it, but at the time of the discussions
> around how internationalisation would be handled Inge raised the idea that
> the ability to edit it could be useful. You could change it to suit your
> audience or to introduce a bit of variety. One quiz page might say "Well
> done you have completed the quiz", whilst the next might say "Good job!"
> for example.
>
>
>
> So the current situation is that many of the original XOT pages have some
> "display text". For most pages it is hidden in the top level form under the
> language check box. What concerned me about this approach was if there was
> a lot of display text. Since the display text will not be changed by most
> authors I wanted to keep it separate, rather than to make the top level
> form excessively long. For me it was a logical separation of different
> types of data.
>
>
>
> With the existing pages the display text presented a problem of backward
> compatibility with pre-existing XOT projects. The ultimate example of this
> is the Quiz page. To ensure that the new model would work with existing
> page data I had to keep a default set of display text values in the model
> as existing pages would not be able to automatically collect the new
> display text data from the xwd file. To ensure that authors in languages
> other than English did not see English values in their page I had to add
> the display text values to the "new nodes" definition for the page. To make
> the display text editable in the xwd form without cluttering up the page's
> main form, I added a "display text" child.
>
>
>
> Since all the new pages - the Connector pages and the Inventory page will
> have no issues of legacy pages in existing projects I kept things simple
> and just added the child element "Display text".
>
>
>
> So what do we do about display text?
>
>
>
> We could
>
>
>
>    1. Remove the "display text" child elements and put the display text
>    fields in the top level form flagged as "language" - people still won't
>    know what to do with it, but they will probably miss seeing it anyway.
>    2. Keep the "display text" child but add a hidden copy of the same
>    data in the page's new nodes entry, so that the page works without adding
>    the "display text" child.
>    3. Leave things as they are and let people know in the new release
>    that they now have access to the text that used to be built into the model
>    files, if they want to change it, but otherwise they can leave it as it is.
>    It is a feature of the new release.
>
> You know my preference as it is already implemented. For me the issue of
> "display text" is an example of a wider issue. There will be times when the
> purpose or usage of a feature of a page, or even the whole page, will not
> intuitive to some users. There is a way of adding a pdf file to a project,
> resulting in a help button displaying on the main navigation. If you had a
> new folder e.g. pageDocs, that operated like the "thumbs" folder, you could
> add a pdf file for a page that explained the purpose of the page, the
> various elements and the fields in those elements to the user. One entry in
> the xwd file could identify the form, in the same way that the thumbs file
> is identified.
>
>
>
> Different people have different understandings of how things are, leading
> to different intuitions as to how something should operate. By being able
> to provide an explanation of how a page works we can keep people on board
> even when the XOT reality is an imperfect match for their expectations. It
> also opens up the opportunity to make more complex pages FWS.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Johnathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 25 April 2012 17:38, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> OK, I think I'm being persuaded.
>
> We need to arrive at a consensus around the new stuff. Maybe 'advanced' is
> a better section name for the connectors than 'connectors', or maybe it's
> just a case of think about automating some of the stuff that is correctly
> configured by the form. The 'displaytext' child really confused me: I had
> no idea what to do with it, and I know that for some people, that will be
> very off putting, so it's remembering the FWS mantra, and trying to apply
> the predictable consistent usability stuff to make it as simple and
> straightforward as possible. Documentation and examples will be useful as
> well.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders
> Sent: 25 April 2012 10:53
> To: For Xerte technical developers
> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Goal
>
> Yes, I think we did. The only thing missing at the moment, and I am
> working on that is a button in the management.php of XOT to
> add/replace a page in one of the templates.
>
> But, that was NOT the only reason to do this in my opinion. Now all
> the model files are the same whether they are used in XOT or the Xerte
> pagetemplates or as pageWizard, and we can translate them and maintain
> them....
>
> Having done all this, we now have the OPTION (not obligation) to add
> the models Johnathan created to XOT (We don't have to, and a user can
> do that him/herself through the management page.)
>
> Also we still can create an visual clue that some of the pages require
> a better understanding of the whol rpoject than just fill in the blanks.
>
> The users we spoke top so far are  VERY enthousistic by all the
> possibillities they now get from XOT and had to do in Xerte firts.
>
> Also, and that was part of the goal as well, it is now easier for a
> person not in the core team to create models and be able to
> maintain/translate them without redoing all the tedious editing/adding
> them to the general xwd's etc....
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> Citeren Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>:
>
> > Have we achieved the goal we set out to of making it easier to build
> > / manage a collection of models  for an administrator wanting to
> > adding his own models? This was one of Ron's requests: has it been
> > achieved?
> >
> > In other words, with the tools that Tom and Jonathan have built, is
> > it easier for you to create the xwd of your choice, or was it easier
> > when you just had to copy sections of an xwd in a text editor?
> >
> > A serious question.
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