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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it further complicated by how the navigation will work with xenith? Is that going to be more like the browser navigation where back is history back?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Just thinking out loud....<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Julian Tenney<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 July 2012 16:39<br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think the problem is as you say, the mix between a historical back button and a linear next button. The two (strong) mental models people will bring are the digital book (linear, prev and fwd); or the browser (back in history, forward in history); we are kinda mixing them up. In a browser you navigate with links; here we are navigating with the fwd button. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What I’ve done is put the navigation back to the old way for linear projects; either of the menu options give the back (in history) functionality. Next always goes to the next page.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next, else go forward? I think we are screwing with people’s mental models here? I’m finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is wrong: this shouldn’t need explaining, we will be doing something wrong if anyone ever asks a question about the navigation system.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hmm.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk">mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kemp Johnathan<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 July 2012 16:29<br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Hi folks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond to this thread, I have been otherwise engaged for most of yesterday and today and before I could respond adequately I needed to check a few things.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>The standard Xerte project has to date been treated as if you are reading a book. No history just turn to the previous or next page relative to the one you are currently viewing. When you use the TOC you are just opening the book at a new page. Back and Next are then relative to that new page.<br><br>The Connector pages introduced a different paradigm for the project. This paradigm required a historical back button. As an example consider a multiple choice connector page. Each of the answer options can link to a sequence of none connector pages, i.e. If the connector page is P1 then <br>option 1 may go to P2 which leads to P3 to P4 and P5 is a redirector page to P10<br>option 2 may go to P6 which leads to P7 to P8 and P9 is a redirector page to P10<br><br>The historical back is needed to ensure that if you traverse backward from P8 to P7 to P6 that the next backward action does not take you to P5 but to P1.<br><br>This inevitably clashes with the book paradigm when you use the TOC which is what Julian found. It will inevitably feel a little strange to Xerte users who are used to the book paradigm. However it does mirror the way a back button works in a web browser, so in a sense it will be what will be expected by anyone opening a Xerte project for the first time.<br><br>However browser users will be confused by the Xerte next button, as browsers that offer a next button base their next on the browser history. Such browsers (IE, Opera) appear to operate by building a history and maintaining a pointer as the history is navigated. Whenever a link is followed (rather than a back or next button) the "next" half of the history is deleted, so that on page exit the current page is added as the most recent page in the history.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>If there are to be on offer in Xerte a choice between the original navigation or historic navigation then the historic navigation would be improved if it also was reflected in the operation of the next button.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>I have performed some tests in opera to figure out what is going on and have attached a pdf file to explain everything. The pdf file opens with a worked example of how a historic navigation that accommodated a back and next button would operate. The last page identifies the rules that would be required in Xerte to implement such a navigation in the xerte navigation.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>I hope this helps. The example can take a little effort to get your head around, but the actions that need to happen with respect to each button are, I think pretty straight forward to implement for someone who knows there way around the appropriate Xerte flash file.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Johnathan.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>On 25 July 2012 10:41, Julian Tenney <<a href="mailto:Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">Julian.Tenney@nottingham.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>I’ve done that, need to play around with it and see if it feels better. Opinions welcome.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Julian Tenney<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 July 2012 09:29</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>OK. I think I’m going to put the default back to the way it was, and add a method to the interface calss to allow the developer to chose: that way it can be linear for linear navigation, and use the history if navigation is menu.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Does this sound sensible?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fay Cross<br><b>Sent:</b> 25 July 2012 08:27<br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:108.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>I only realised it did the back to previous page viewed rather than numerical back when doing the testing a couple of weeks ago so I did find it a bit odd. I think it’s because I thought of the LO pages to be like pages in a book rather than web pages so history back was unexpected.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>So at the moment does a linear layout have numerical forward and back and menu layout have history back and numerical forward? If the linear one has history back I do think this could confuse users when they’ve changed page using table of contents.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:108.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Julian Tenney<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 July 2012 11:35<br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Ah, but then back would have taken me just one page back, and I could go one page forward again…</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Mitchell<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 July 2012 11:29<br><b>To:</b> 'For Xerte technical developers'<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>But you weren't able to do that previously either?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Julian Tenney<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 July 2012 11:16<br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Has it felt right to you whilst testing? Mostly it does feel OK, but the time it gribble me out is when I use the TOC to jump to a page, hit back (go back to page one) and then can’t easily (without re-opening the TOC) get back to the page I was just on (cos there’s no ‘forward’). It somehow doesn’t feel quite right</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron Mitchell<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 July 2012 11:08<br><b>To:</b> 'For Xerte technical developers'<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'>I think it's fine the way it is now with back being history back and next being next numeric page but if you've found inconsistencies with the history back perhaps it would be better to revert back to what it's always been. Not sure about author control wouldn't that lead to confusion where sometimes it's history and sometimes it's linear?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a> [<a href="mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">mailto:xerte-dev-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Julian Tenney<br><b>Sent:</b> 24 July 2012 10:49<br><b>To:</b> For Xerte technical developers<br><b>Subject:</b> [Xerte-dev] Back / Next Functionlaity</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'>What do you think: we made the back button in the interface go back in history, rather than back in pages: this seems to work well in some situations, but whilst testing, I have hit back several times and not gone where I expected to, and can’t go forward: do you think we should have it so that the developer can chose which way it works?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'>So, for a linear interface, it works as it did before, going back and forth on page numbers; if it’s a menu driven piece, it goes back in history?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'>I think the problem I found in terms of inconsistencies is that forward always takes you next, rather than forward in history when back goes back in history rather than pages (read that again carefully).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'>Next can’t be forward, as it’s the main way of getting to the next, unvisited page.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'>This should do what the user expects because it grates when you don’t go where you wanted.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:144.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:144.0pt'>This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. 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