From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Wed Sep 6 09:10:23 2017 From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 08:10:23 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] FW: Xerte Online Feedback In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Is it the case that co-authors can't export projects (I think it is - and agree with the reasoning) In which case can we either disable, or prompt when they attempt to? Julian From: Peter Cameron Welch [mailto:Peter.Welch at nottingham.edu.cn] Sent: 06 September 2017 08:25 To: Tenney Julian Subject: RE: Xerte Online Feedback Hi Julian I have tried on some other projects and it does work fine. The ones where it won't work are shared and I am the Co-author - should I be able to download them? Peter From: Julian Tenney [mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 3:19 PM To: Peter Cameron Welch > Cc: Fay Cross > Subject: RE: Xerte Online Feedback Hmm, it works for me here. Can you try it again please Peter? [cid:image001.png at 01D32724.4637BC00] From: Tenney Julian Sent: 06 September 2017 08:17 To: Peter Cameron Welch > Cc: Cross Fay > Subject: Re: Xerte Online Feedback We'll take a look. I think it might have something to do with permissions on the server, Cheers, ________________________________ From: Peter Cameron Welch > Sent: 06 September 2017 05:30 To: Tenney Julian Cc: Cross Fay Subject: RE: Xerte Online Feedback Thanks Julian Another issue... we have been trying to export projects as SCORM packages, but have been unable to do so. After clicking the Get SCORM link (either of them) a Waiting for www.nottingham.ac.uk... alert appears for about 30 seconds - 1 min and then disappears and nothing else happens. I have also just tried the Get Deployment Zip, Get Archive Zip and Get Offline Zip functions with the same result. Hoping you can help Also, do you know who I should contact regarding the capacity of Moodle (specifically, how many people could use a Signup Sheet at the same time without crashing the system)? The people here have told me a couple of different answers. Thanks Peter From: Julian Tenney [mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, September 04, 2017 5:07 PM To: Peter Cameron Welch > Subject: FW: Xerte Online Feedback Hiya, I don't know! I'll get Fay to get back to you when she's in on Wednesday. I remember some discussion about it, perhaps it needs to be clearer, Julian From: Apache [mailto:apache at www.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of julian.tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Sent: 01 September 2017 02:43 To: Tenney Julian > Subject: Xerte Online Feedback Name Peter Welch Message Hi I have been using the Quiz interactivity and see for each question there is now a label Q-Tree/Tracking Label and A-Tree/Tracking Label. Could you please tell me how these work? Should each question in a quiz be Q1-Tree/Tracking Label, Q2-Tree/Tracking Label, Q3-Tree/Tracking Label, etc? Or should these names be unique for each quiz? e.g. Hub Q1, Hub Q2, etc or Hub1, Hub2, etc? And the same for the answers? Thanks Peter This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of The University of Nottingham Ningbo China. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system: you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with The University of Nottingham Ningbo China may be monitored as permitted by UK and Chinese legislation. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 124924 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 8 10:27:02 2017 From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:27:02 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Message-ID: Hi, We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it. In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like... Question - Option - Option - Option Question - Option - Option - Option Etc Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this: Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label etc This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'. Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 etc ...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children. What do you think? Julian [cid:image001.png at 01D3288C.96109D00] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 8 10:43:30 2017 From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 09:43:30 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> Message-ID: Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I'd appreciate other's points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open otherwise. We can't function well as a community if people are not aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. >From my point of view the confusing part is 'Tree/Tracking label'. Users do not know what that means. They probably don't know what tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that's the feedback I'm getting. Julian From: Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] Sent: 08 September 2017 10:34 To: Tenney Julian Subject: Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I think the confusing part is the A So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you prefer Answer label Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of course. Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: Hi, We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it. In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like... Question - Option - Option - Option Question - Option - Option - Option Etc Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this: Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label etc This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'. Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 etc ...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children. What do you think? Julian [cid:image001.png at 01D3288F.1FDBA8C0] This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From reijnders at tor.nl Fri Sep 8 11:27:29 2017 From: reijnders at tor.nl (Tom Reijnders) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 12:27:29 +0200 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> Message-ID: <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl> Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to answer the list. Honestly :-) I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question. Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or even better 'Answer label' What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how would they like it to be called? Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney: > > Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I?d appreciate other?s > points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the > discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open > otherwise. We can?t function well as a community if people are not > aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to > contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a > public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don?t see what?s > wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people > who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the > means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: > https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. > > > From my point of view the confusing part is ?Tree/Tracking label?. > Users do not know what that means. They probably don?t know what tree > we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They > want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that?s the feedback > I?m getting. > > Julian > > *From:*Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] > *Sent:* 08 September 2017 10:34 > *To:* Tenney Julian > *Subject:* Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label > > I think the confusing part is the A > > So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I > think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you > prefer Answer label > > Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of > course. > > Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: > > Hi, > > We?ve had some comments from users saying they don?t understand > the ?A ? Tree/Tracking label? string in the label field. I tend to > agree this fails the FWS test. I don?t have any problem with the > functionality as such, I can see it?s useful, but I think we need > to change the string in the label field. ?A ? Tree/Tracking label? > is not intuitive, and I?ve had some ?huh?? emails from some > reasonably adept users about it. > > In the past we had ?question? and ?option?, which led to the tree > view like? > > Question > > -Option > > -Option > > -Option > > Question > > -Option > > -Option > > -Option > > Etc > > Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement > on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) > where you produce this: > > Q - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > Q - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > etc > > This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what > a ?question? and an ?option? are. They haven?t the faintest idea > what ?A - Tree/Tracking label? means, so I would favour taking it > back to ?question? and ?option?. > > Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are > added so you get > > Question1 > > -Option1 > > -Option2 > > -Option3 > > Question2 > > -Option1 > > -Option2 > > -Option3 > > etc > > ?but I don?t think we have that functionality anywhere in the > editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say ?increment=?true?/> presumably it wouldn?t be too difficult to add > that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based > on a count of the children. > > What do you think? > > Julian > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee > > and may contain confidential information. If you have received this > > message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. > > Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this > > message or in any attachment.? Any views or opinions expressed by the > > author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the > > University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your > > computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > > permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xerte-dev mailing list > > Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > > > http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev > > > > -- > -- > Tom Reijnders > TOR Informatica > Chopinlaan 27 > 5242HM Rosmalen > Tel: 073 5226191 > Fax: 073 5226196 > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee > and may contain confidential information. If you have received this > message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. > > Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this > message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the > author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the > University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your > computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > permitted by UK legislation. > > > _______________________________________________ > Xerte-dev mailing list > Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 8 13:09:36 2017 From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 12:09:36 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl> References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl> Message-ID: No worries! Could we do the auto-increment thing do you think? Is that a good idea? And use incremenr="true" in the .xwd to add a count of the children to the end of the string? Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Would be the best thing from my point of view, and then it's obvious what it's for. 'Tree' doesn't mean anything to most users. 'Answer label' to me sounds like the name of the property, rather than its value - why did you reject 'option' as the string? I seem to remember a similar semantic discussion years ago when we came up with 'question' and 'option' Julian From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 11:27 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to answer the list. Honestly :-) I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question. Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or even better 'Answer label' What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how would they like it to be called? Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney: Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I'd appreciate other's points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open otherwise. We can't function well as a community if people are not aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. >From my point of view the confusing part is 'Tree/Tracking label'. Users do not know what that means. They probably don't know what tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that's the feedback I'm getting. Julian From: Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] Sent: 08 September 2017 10:34 To: Tenney Julian Subject: Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I think the confusing part is the A So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you prefer Answer label Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of course. Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: Hi, We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it. In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like... Question - Option - Option - Option Question - Option - Option - Option Etc Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this: Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label etc This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'. Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 etc ...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children. What do you think? Julian [cid:image001.png at 01D328A3.4AA64FB0] This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From reijnders at tor.nl Fri Sep 8 14:10:27 2017 From: reijnders at tor.nl (Tom Reijnders) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 15:10:27 +0200 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl> Message-ID: I don't think it's about Answer or Option.... Frankly, I don't care. The point is, that we need to be able to differentiate between the fact that the user is changing the contents of the Answer or Option, and changing the label used in the tree and the label used for tracking. Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 14:09 schreef Julian Tenney: > > No worries! > > Could we do the auto-increment thing do you think? Is that a good > idea? And use incremenr=?true? in the .xwd to add a count of the > children to the end of the string? > > Question1 > > -Option1 > > -Option2 > > -Option3 > > Question2 > > -Option1 > > -Option2 > > -Option3 > > Would be the best thing from my point of view, and then it?s obvious > what it?s for. ?Tree? doesn?t mean anything to most users. ?Answer > label? to me sounds like the name of the property, rather than its > value ? why did you reject ?option? as the string? I seem to remember > a similar semantic discussion years ago when we came up with > ?question? and ?option? > > Julian > > *From:*xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Tom > Reijnders > *Sent:* 08 September 2017 11:27 > *To:* xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label > > Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to > answer the list. Honestly :-) > > I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also > because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question. > > Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or > even better 'Answer label' > > What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people > who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how > would they like it to be called? > > Tom > > Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney: > > Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I?d appreciate > other?s points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take > the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open > otherwise. We can?t function well as a community if people are not > aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to > contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than > a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don?t see > what?s wrong with discussing general developments in public. It > shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and > even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in > our governance policy: > https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. > > > From my point of view the confusing part is ?Tree/Tracking label?. > Users do not know what that means. They probably don?t know what > tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in > tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, > that?s the feedback I?m getting. > > Julian > > *From:*Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] > *Sent:* 08 September 2017 10:34 > *To:* Tenney Julian > > *Subject:* Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label > > I think the confusing part is the A > > So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I > think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if > you prefer Answer label > > Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label > of course. > > Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: > > Hi, > > We?ve had some comments from users saying they don?t > understand the ?A ? Tree/Tracking label? string in the label > field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don?t have > any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it?s > useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label > field. ?A ? Tree/Tracking label? is not intuitive, and I?ve > had some ?huh?? emails from some reasonably adept users about it. > > In the past we had ?question? and ?option?, which led to the > tree view like? > > Question > > -Option > > -Option > > -Option > > Question > > -Option > > -Option > > -Option > > Etc > > Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an > improvement on this, although we now have the same situation > (albeit editable) where you produce this: > > Q - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > Q - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > -A - Tree/Tracking label > > etc > > This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know > what a ?question? and an ?option? are. They haven?t the > faintest idea what ?A - Tree/Tracking label? means, so I would > favour taking it back to ?question? and ?option?. > > Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they > are added so you get > > Question1 > > -Option1 > > -Option2 > > -Option3 > > Question2 > > -Option1 > > -Option2 > > -Option3 > > etc > > ?but I don?t think we have that functionality anywhere in the > editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say > presumably it wouldn?t be too > difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end > of the string based on a count of the children. > > What do you think? > > Julian > > > > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee > > and may contain confidential information. If you have received this > > message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. > > > > Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this > > message or in any attachment.? Any views or opinions expressed by the > > author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the > > University of Nottingham. > > > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your > > computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > > permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xerte-dev mailing list > > Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > > > http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev > > > > > -- > > -- > > > > Tom Reijnders > > TOR Informatica > > Chopinlaan 27 > > 5242HM Rosmalen > > Tel: 073 5226191 > > Fax: 073 5226196 > > > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee > > and may contain confidential information. If you have received this > > message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. > > Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this > > message or in any attachment.? Any views or opinions expressed by the > > author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the > > University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > > attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your > > computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > > permitted by UK legislation. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xerte-dev mailing list > > Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > > > http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev > > > > -- > -- > Tom Reijnders > TOR Informatica > Chopinlaan 27 > 5242HM Rosmalen > Tel: 073 5226191 > Fax: 073 5226196 > > This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee > and may contain confidential information. If you have received this > message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. > > Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this > message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the > author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the > University of Nottingham. > > This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an > attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your > computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email > communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as > permitted by UK legislation. > > > _______________________________________________ > Xerte-dev mailing list > Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk > http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 8 15:09:13 2017 From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 14:09:13 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl>

Message-ID: Understood. But the wizard does that for us with the labels on the form: Answer: 'The answer the user will choose' Label: 'A - Tree/Tracking Label'. WTF? It's the default text in the pre-populated field for label that I have the issue with. The string 'A - Tree/Tracking label' makes no sense to most users. I would prefer it to just say 'label' or 'answer' or 'option'. But if it could auto-increment it could say option1, option2, option3 and then it would immediately be obvious to the user what it was for. From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 14:10 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I don't think it's about Answer or Option.... Frankly, I don't care. The point is, that we need to be able to differentiate between the fact that the user is changing the contents of the Answer or Option, and changing the label used in the tree and the label used for tracking. Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 14:09 schreef Julian Tenney: No worries! Could we do the auto-increment thing do you think? Is that a good idea? And use incremenr="true" in the .xwd to add a count of the children to the end of the string? Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Would be the best thing from my point of view, and then it's obvious what it's for. 'Tree' doesn't mean anything to most users. 'Answer label' to me sounds like the name of the property, rather than its value - why did you reject 'option' as the string? I seem to remember a similar semantic discussion years ago when we came up with 'question' and 'option' Julian From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 11:27 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to answer the list. Honestly :-) I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question. Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or even better 'Answer label' What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how would they like it to be called? Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney: Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I'd appreciate other's points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open otherwise. We can't function well as a community if people are not aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. >From my point of view the confusing part is 'Tree/Tracking label'. Users do not know what that means. They probably don't know what tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that's the feedback I'm getting. Julian From: Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] Sent: 08 September 2017 10:34 To: Tenney Julian Subject: Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I think the confusing part is the A So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you prefer Answer label Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of course. Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: Hi, We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it. In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like... Question - Option - Option - Option Question - Option - Option - Option Etc Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this: Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label etc This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'. Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 etc ...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children. What do you think? Julian [cid:image001.png at 01D328B4.6CD99720] This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From Fay.Cross at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 8 15:55:51 2017 From: Fay.Cross at nottingham.ac.uk (Fay Cross) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 14:55:51 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl>

Message-ID: So we used to have fields that were something like this: Label: Question Prompt: Enter a prompt ---- Label: Option Option: Enter an option Feedback: Enter the feedback for this option But I wasn't keen as because the label fields were at the top & had default text of 'Question' & 'Option' I almost always completed these with the text I wanted to be on screen which then wouldn't appear (I wasn't only one confused by this... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/578 ) Now the labels are lower down the page & the default prompt text has changed to 'Enter the question' I don't think it would be all that confusing to have the label default text back to 'Question' & 'Option' (particularly if we could number them as Julian suggests too). I'm not overly keen on tree/tracking. Honestly though, this has had so many changes & discussions over the last year or so that I've lost sight of what I would ideally like these to be like now... Background reading here Julian!... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/526 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney Sent: 08 September 2017 15:09 To: For Xerte technical developers Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Understood. But the wizard does that for us with the labels on the form: Answer: 'The answer the user will choose' Label: 'A - Tree/Tracking Label'. WTF? It's the default text in the pre-populated field for label that I have the issue with. The string 'A - Tree/Tracking label' makes no sense to most users. I would prefer it to just say 'label' or 'answer' or 'option'. But if it could auto-increment it could say option1, option2, option3 and then it would immediately be obvious to the user what it was for. From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 14:10 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I don't think it's about Answer or Option.... Frankly, I don't care. The point is, that we need to be able to differentiate between the fact that the user is changing the contents of the Answer or Option, and changing the label used in the tree and the label used for tracking. Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 14:09 schreef Julian Tenney: No worries! Could we do the auto-increment thing do you think? Is that a good idea? And use incremenr="true" in the .xwd to add a count of the children to the end of the string? Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Would be the best thing from my point of view, and then it's obvious what it's for. 'Tree' doesn't mean anything to most users. 'Answer label' to me sounds like the name of the property, rather than its value - why did you reject 'option' as the string? I seem to remember a similar semantic discussion years ago when we came up with 'question' and 'option' Julian From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 11:27 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to answer the list. Honestly :-) I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question. Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or even better 'Answer label' What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how would they like it to be called? Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney: Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I'd appreciate other's points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open otherwise. We can't function well as a community if people are not aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. >From my point of view the confusing part is 'Tree/Tracking label'. Users do not know what that means. They probably don't know what tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that's the feedback I'm getting. Julian From: Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] Sent: 08 September 2017 10:34 To: Tenney Julian Subject: Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I think the confusing part is the A So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you prefer Answer label Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of course. Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: Hi, We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it. In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like... Question - Option - Option - Option Question - Option - Option - Option Etc Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this: Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label etc This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'. Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 etc ...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children. What do you think? Julian [cid:image001.png at 01D328B8.AE344130] This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation. _______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev -- -- Tom Reijnders TOR Informatica Chopinlaan 27 5242HM Rosmalen Tel: 073 5226191 Fax: 073 5226196 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 79270 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk Fri Sep 8 16:33:40 2017 From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 15:33:40 +0000 Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label In-Reply-To: References: <620ea8a5-a94e-e90d-b769-74d25f590f68@tor.nl> <83f6669e-60b5-3581-866b-52716298dc47@tor.nl>

Message-ID: Background reading here Julian!... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/526 Thanks! I think we're in the right place, it's just the string to figure out. Tree/tracking isn't going to mean anything to most users. It makes sense that the label can be changed by the user for the tree. My favourite option is to auto-increment the items as I said, which makes it really clear, but will need some work in the editor to support increment="true" in the xml. Otherwise I'm struggling a bit myself to come up with a good string for the default value which makes FWS sense. What about 'Shown as' on the form and 'label' as the default value? At least we're getting bogged down in stupid issues rather than serious ones :) Have a good weekend From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay Cross Sent: 08 September 2017 15:56 To: For Xerte technical developers Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label So we used to have fields that were something like this: Label: Question Prompt: Enter a prompt ---- Label: Option Option: Enter an option Feedback: Enter the feedback for this option But I wasn't keen as because the label fields were at the top & had default text of 'Question' & 'Option' I almost always completed these with the text I wanted to be on screen which then wouldn't appear (I wasn't only one confused by this... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/578 ) Now the labels are lower down the page & the default prompt text has changed to 'Enter the question' I don't think it would be all that confusing to have the label default text back to 'Question' & 'Option' (particularly if we could number them as Julian suggests too). I'm not overly keen on tree/tracking. Honestly though, this has had so many changes & discussions over the last year or so that I've lost sight of what I would ideally like these to be like now... Background reading here Julian!... https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/issues/526 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney Sent: 08 September 2017 15:09 To: For Xerte technical developers > Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Understood. But the wizard does that for us with the labels on the form: Answer: 'The answer the user will choose' Label: 'A - Tree/Tracking Label'. WTF? It's the default text in the pre-populated field for label that I have the issue with. The string 'A - Tree/Tracking label' makes no sense to most users. I would prefer it to just say 'label' or 'answer' or 'option'. But if it could auto-increment it could say option1, option2, option3 and then it would immediately be obvious to the user what it was for. From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 14:10 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I don't think it's about Answer or Option.... Frankly, I don't care. The point is, that we need to be able to differentiate between the fact that the user is changing the contents of the Answer or Option, and changing the label used in the tree and the label used for tracking. Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 14:09 schreef Julian Tenney: No worries! Could we do the auto-increment thing do you think? Is that a good idea? And use incremenr="true" in the .xwd to add a count of the children to the end of the string? Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Would be the best thing from my point of view, and then it's obvious what it's for. 'Tree' doesn't mean anything to most users. 'Answer label' to me sounds like the name of the property, rather than its value - why did you reject 'option' as the string? I seem to remember a similar semantic discussion years ago when we came up with 'question' and 'option' Julian From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Tom Reijnders Sent: 08 September 2017 11:27 To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label Apologies for answering only to you, it was my full intention to answer the list. Honestly :-) I do agree that 'A - Tree/Tracking Label' is confusing, but also because of the abbreviation of Answer and Question. Like I said, I prefer to make this 'Answer - Tree/Tracking label' or even better 'Answer label' What would be interesting to know is, if you can go back to the people who asked and were confused, and explained the functionality: how would they like it to be called? Tom Op 8-9-2017 om 11:43 schreef Julian Tenney: Can we please keep the discussion in the open? I'd appreciate other's points of view. Sometimes there is a good reason to take the discussion off list, but we ought to be discussing in the open otherwise. We can't function well as a community if people are not aware of what is being discussed and have an opportunity to contribute. If we would prefer to have a private list, rather than a public list for this then we can discuss that, but I don't see what's wrong with discussing general developments in public. It shows people who are interested that activity is going on, and even provides the means for them to contribute. It is defined in our governance policy: https://github.com/thexerteproject/xerteonlinetoolkits/wiki/6.-Decision-Making-Process. >From my point of view the confusing part is 'Tree/Tracking label'. Users do not know what that means. They probably don't know what tree we refer to. They may not be using, or interested, in tracking. They want to make a quiz out of questions and answers, that's the feedback I'm getting. Julian From: Tom Reijnders [mailto:reijnders at tor.nl] Sent: 08 September 2017 10:34 To: Tenney Julian Subject: Re: [Xerte-dev] Quiz and Tree/Tracking Label I think the confusing part is the A So although I understand that we want to keep these texts short, I think we should change it to Answer - Tree/Tracking label, or if you prefer Answer label Same holds for other similar labels like Q - Tree/Tracking label of course. Op 8-9-2017 om 11:27 schreef Julian Tenney: Hi, We've had some comments from users saying they don't understand the 'A - Tree/Tracking label' string in the label field. I tend to agree this fails the FWS test. I don't have any problem with the functionality as such, I can see it's useful, but I think we need to change the string in the label field. 'A - Tree/Tracking label' is not intuitive, and I've had some 'huh?' emails from some reasonably adept users about it. In the past we had 'question' and 'option', which led to the tree view like... Question - Option - Option - Option Question - Option - Option - Option Etc Having the ability to control how the tree looks is an improvement on this, although we now have the same situation (albeit editable) where you produce this: Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label Q - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label - A - Tree/Tracking label etc This in my view is worse than what we had before. People know what a 'question' and an 'option' are. They haven't the faintest idea what 'A - Tree/Tracking label' means, so I would favour taking it back to 'question' and 'option'. Better would be if we could auto-increment the items as they are added so you get Question1 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 Question2 - Option1 - Option2 - Option3 etc ...but I don't think we have that functionality anywhere in the editor at present. If we added a property to the xwd to say presumably it wouldn't be too difficult to add that functionality, and just add n to the end of the string based on a count of the children. What do you think? Julian [cid:image001.png at 01D328BF.AAC55500] This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. 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