From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Wed Feb  5 15:59:25 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 15:59:25 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Wed Feb  5 16:09:54 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:09:54 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Wed Feb  5 16:15:35 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:15:35 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk  Wed Feb  5 16:56:58 2014
From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk (Ron Mitchell)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 16:56:58 -0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the
change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it
probably wouldn't help.

 

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if
I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two
of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I
don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly
get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

 

Cheers

Ron

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of
the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved
adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration
and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and
gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate
so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any
problems myself.

 

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily
have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing
that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this.
something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into
the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then
overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its
properly wrapped in CDATA blocks. 

 

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

 

Regards,

 

John Smith

Learning Technologist

School of Health & Life Sciences

Glasgow Caledonian University

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here
last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases,
the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a
closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data
loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the
point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

 

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem
we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I
don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case
on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has
been forthcoming.

 

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some
sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going
on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

 

Julian

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en
.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,e
n.html

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Wed Feb  5 23:03:34 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 23:03:34 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE84580E1@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

I thoght what would be good to do would be to write out a backup every time the file is saved, then you'd be able to see, but managing that sensibly is a bit tricky? tIt would need to clean up, and leave, maybe, the last 30 saves?

It might be something that happens only with a new editing session? So it might be the way the wizard reads the xml in.
________________________________________
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell [ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk]
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:56
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text ? I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I?d sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn?t experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I?m (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this? something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported ?lost pages?. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that?s the first time I?ve ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it?s just coincidence, but I?m a bit worried there might be a problem we don?t know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don?t suspect (highly) user error (it?s always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I?m less certain. I?ve asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 09:48:03 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:48:03 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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From ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk  Thu Feb  6 10:14:34 2014
From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk (Ron Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 10:14:34 -0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to
do when it happens. 

 

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how
that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss 

 

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is
also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed
that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing
at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

 

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the
various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it
happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare
occurrence?

 

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we
need, it's a history of the edits?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the
change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it
probably wouldn't help.

 

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if
I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two
of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I
don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly
get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

 

Cheers

Ron

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of
the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved
adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration
and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and
gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate
so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any
problems myself.

 

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily
have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing
that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this.
something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into
the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then
overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its
properly wrapped in CDATA blocks. 

 

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

 

Regards,

 

John Smith

Learning Technologist

School of Health & Life Sciences

Glasgow Caledonian University

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here
last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases,
the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a
closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data
loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the
point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

 

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem
we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I
don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case
on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has
been forthcoming.

 

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some
sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going
on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

 

Julian

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en
.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,e
n.html

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
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not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 10:49:07 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 10:49:07 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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From xerte at pgogywebstuff.com  Thu Feb  6 11:45:57 2014
From: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com (Pat L (pgogy))
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:45:57 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAO2PinPcu-VSxiL1CMUYkLHOz19Mq-5cdzoZSBmSwdimBXoZAw@mail.gmail.com>

the thing is xml proofing it

don't save if XML poorly
don't publish if XML poorly

Could the editor not verify XML before firing the save?


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Julian Tenney <
Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

> I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not
> actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't
> think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly.
> Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might
> be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code,
> there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.
>
>
>
> One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish'
> dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then
> over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no
> way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is
> 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Ron Mitchell
> *Sent:* 06 February 2014 10:15
> *To:* 'For Xerte technical developers'
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what
> to do when it happens.
>
>
>
> But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine
> how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss
>
>
>
> So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview
> is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are
> briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop
> editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.
>
>
>
> I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the
> various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it
> happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare
> occurrence?
>
>
>
> I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* 06 February 2014 09:48
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup
> we need, it's a history of the edits?
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Ron Mitchell
> *Sent:* 05 February 2014 16:57
> *To:* 'For Xerte technical developers'
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after
> the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored
> backup it probably wouldn't help.
>
>
>
> At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see
> if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or
> two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server
> and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can
> quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* 05 February 2014 16:16
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of
> the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved
> adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration
> and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype
> and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to
> duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't
> experience any problems myself.
>
>
>
> I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could
> easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort
> of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Smith, John
> *Sent:* 05 February 2014 16:10
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this...
> something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into
> the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were
> then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its
> properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.
>
>
>
> Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> John Smith
>
> Learning Technologist
>
> School of Health & Life Sciences
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Lost Data
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had
> here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both
> cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact,
> with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen
> data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at
> the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving,
> right?)
>
>
>
> Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a
> problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported
> here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In
> the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but
> none has been forthcoming.
>
>
>
> Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place
> some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML
> going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?
>
>
>
> Julian
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
> SC021474
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
> Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
>
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
> Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
> partners.
>
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From d_b_burnett at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  6 12:57:44 2014
From: d_b_burnett at hotmail.com (Dave Burnett)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 07:57:44 -0500
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <CAO2PinPcu-VSxiL1CMUYkLHOz19Mq-5cdzoZSBmSwdimBXoZAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<CAO2PinPcu-VSxiL1CMUYkLHOz19Mq-5cdzoZSBmSwdimBXoZAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU177-W49D40C524352837EE855D0A7940@phx.gbl>

I think the xml is well formed.It's dropping entire node sets:  <page></page> 

Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:45:57 +0000
From: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

the thing is xml proofing it
don't save if XML poorlydon't publish if XML poorly
Could the editor not verify XML before firing the save?


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

I?m also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren?t doing any funky html stuff, so I don?t think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren?t on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we?ve never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.
 One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the ?do you want to publish? dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying ?yes? and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you?ve got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is ?did you publish the file? and the answer every time is ?yes?. Doh.
 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data 
Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.  
But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss 
 So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.
 I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?
 I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(
 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data 
I think you?d end up backing up the broken file. It?s not really a backup we need, it?s a history of the edits? 
From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data 
The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.
 At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.
 CheersRon
 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data 
No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text ? I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I?d sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn?t experience any problems myself.
 I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I?m (a bit) less likely to do.
 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data 
Hi, I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this? something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks. 
 Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?
 Regards, 
John SmithLearning Technologist
School of Health & Life SciencesGlasgow Caledonian University
 From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data
 Hi, Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported ?lost pages?. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that?s the first time I?ve ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)
 Maybe it?s just coincidence, but I?m a bit worried there might be a problem we don?t know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don?t suspect (highly) user error (it?s always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I?m less certain. I?ve asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.
 Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?
 Julian 
This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

  
This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.




_______________________________________________

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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 12:59:04 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 12:59:04 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <BLU177-W49D40C524352837EE855D0A7940@phx.gbl>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<CAO2PinPcu-VSxiL1CMUYkLHOz19Mq-5cdzoZSBmSwdimBXoZAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU177-W49D40C524352837EE855D0A7940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F04B@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

That's the problem.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett
Sent: 06 February 2014 12:58
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think the xml is well formed.
It's dropping entire node sets:  <page></page>


________________________________
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:45:57 +0000
From: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com<mailto:xerte at pgogywebstuff.com>
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
the thing is xml proofing it

don't save if XML poorly
don't publish if XML poorly

Could the editor not verify XML before firing the save?

On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>> wrote:
I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

_______________________________________________
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From ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk  Thu Feb  6 11:15:50 2014
From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk (Ron Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:15:50 -0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit
your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change
the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made
changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for
all when this is a rare and minority issue.

 

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is
so intermittant.

 

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally)
and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by
the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems
slightly or completely different.

 

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the
examples you've seen using those pages?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not
actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't
think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly.
Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be
(we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there
will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

 

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish'
dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then
over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no
way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is
'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to
do when it happens. 

 

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how
that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss 

 

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is
also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed
that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing
at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

 

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the
various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it
happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare
occurrence?

 

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we
need, it's a history of the edits?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the
change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it
probably wouldn't help.

 

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if
I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two
of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I
don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly
get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

 

Cheers

Ron

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of
the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved
adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration
and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and
gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate
so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any
problems myself.

 

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily
have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing
that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this.
something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into
the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then
overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its
properly wrapped in CDATA blocks. 

 

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

 

Regards,

 

John Smith

Learning Technologist

School of Health & Life Sciences

Glasgow Caledonian University

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here
last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases,
the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a
closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data
loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the
point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

 

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem
we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I
don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case
on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has
been forthcoming.

 

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some
sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going
on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

 

Julian

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
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attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en
.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,e
n.html

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 13:15:41 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:15:41 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 13:58:32 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:58:32 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 14:05:29 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:05:29 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 14:29:08 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
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Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

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From d_b_burnett at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  6 14:47:09 2014
From: d_b_burnett at hotmail.com (Dave Burnett)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:47:09 -0500
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.? From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data








If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?
 
Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages ? we upload and then check for the existence of a file?
 
What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server ? if they don?t match then we have a parsing issue? that is assuming that I am
 right ? I have been known to be wrong on occasion?

 
Regards,
 
John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

 


From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had
 parsed correctly, minus the missing node?
 
You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created
 when you click play ? so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Smith, John

Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
I don?t think the session bug can cause this? if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it?

 
It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn?t save if different? was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?
 
The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node?

 
Regards,
 
John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?
 
I don?t think so, at least, I hadn?t put any of those pages in her prototype.
 
I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes
 with someone else?s LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I?m not sure which browser was being used there.
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of
 enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.
 
Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.
 
I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages
 without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.
 
I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
I?m also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren?t doing any funky html stuff, so I don?t think most users are at risk, if there is something not
 escaping properly. Also, most users aren?t on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we?ve never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.
 
One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the ?do you want to publish? dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying ?yes? and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml,
 and then you?ve got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is ?did you publish the file? and the answer every time is ?yes?. Doh.
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

 
But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

 
So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing
 to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.
 
I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern
 given this is a rare occurrence?
 
I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
I think you?d end up backing up the broken file. It?s not really a backup we need, it?s a history of the edits?
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.
 
At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment
 the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.
 
Cheers
Ron
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text ? I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a
 transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I?d sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn?t experience any problems
 myself.
 
I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I?m (a bit) less likely to do.
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Smith, John

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
Hi,
 

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this? something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes
 were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

 
Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?
 
Regards,
 
John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM

To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data


 
Hi,
 
Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported ?lost pages?. Looking at the xml it was intact,
 with a closing </learningObject> tag: that?s the first time I?ve ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)
 
Maybe it?s just coincidence, but I?m a bit worried there might be a problem we don?t know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don?t suspect (highly) user error (it?s always a possibility). In
 the case on the Xerte list I?m less certain. I?ve asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.
 
Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?
 
Julian
 
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This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University
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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474



Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html



Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
 
This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy
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This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy
 or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University
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Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.

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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 14:50:19 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:50:19 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F140@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

> Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.
Which made me think sessions.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:47
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.
I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.
Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.
?

________________________________
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk<mailto:J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


_______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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From d_b_burnett at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  6 14:47:08 2014
From: d_b_burnett at hotmail.com (Dave Burnett)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:47:08 -0500
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <BLU177-W79256C401F2F43F6C8E63A7940@phx.gbl>

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.? From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data








If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?
 
Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages ? we upload and then check for the existence of a file?
 
What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server ? if they don?t match then we have a parsing issue? that is assuming that I am
 right ? I have been known to be wrong on occasion?

 
Regards,
 
John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

 


From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had
 parsed correctly, minus the missing node?
 
You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created
 when you click play ? so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Smith, John

Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
I don?t think the session bug can cause this? if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it?

 
It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn?t save if different? was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?
 
The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node?

 
Regards,
 
John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?
 
I don?t think so, at least, I hadn?t put any of those pages in her prototype.
 
I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes
 with someone else?s LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I?m not sure which browser was being used there.
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of
 enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.
 
Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.
 
I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages
 without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.
 
I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
I?m also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren?t doing any funky html stuff, so I don?t think most users are at risk, if there is something not
 escaping properly. Also, most users aren?t on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we?ve never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.
 
One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the ?do you want to publish? dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying ?yes? and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml,
 and then you?ve got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is ?did you publish the file? and the answer every time is ?yes?. Doh.
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

 
But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

 
So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing
 to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.
 
I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern
 given this is a rare occurrence?
 
I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
I think you?d end up backing up the broken file. It?s not really a backup we need, it?s a history of the edits?
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57

To: 'For Xerte technical developers'

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.
 
At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment
 the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.
 
Cheers
Ron
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text ? I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a
 transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I?d sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn?t experience any problems
 myself.
 
I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I?m (a bit) less likely to do.
 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Smith, John

Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10

To: For Xerte technical developers

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data


 
Hi,
 

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this? something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes
 were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

 
Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?
 
Regards,
 
John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

 


From:
xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk]
On Behalf Of Julian Tenney

Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM

To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)

Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data


 
Hi,
 
Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported ?lost pages?. Looking at the xml it was intact,
 with a closing </learningObject> tag: that?s the first time I?ve ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)
 
Maybe it?s just coincidence, but I?m a bit worried there might be a problem we don?t know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don?t suspect (highly) user error (it?s always a possibility). In
 the case on the Xerte list I?m less certain. I?ve asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.
 
Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?
 
Julian
 
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy
 or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy
 or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University
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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474



Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html



Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
 
This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy
 or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University
 of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 



Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474



Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html



Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.

http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html




This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 14:51:23 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:51:23 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
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	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F144@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

If that's not hard to do, that would at least allow us to trap any occasions when this happens...

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:29
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 14:53:41 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:53:41 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4EB@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

Julian, did you create and gift to the person or just send them the HTML to paste in?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:47 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.
I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.
Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.
?

________________________________
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk<mailto:J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


_______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 14:58:20 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:58:20 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4EB@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4EB@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F154@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

I did gift them, yes.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:54
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Julian, did you create and gift to the person or just send them the HTML to paste in?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:47 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.
I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.
Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.
?

________________________________
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk<mailto:J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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_______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev

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Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 15:00:29 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:00:29 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F144@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
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	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F144@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F5@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

Yes, but only if I'm right... would be great to be able to reproduce...

I have a rough list for the new editor and copy+paste and history were too things that I was hoping we could implement...

I've got live multi editing down too (I'm thinking Google Docs here) but might be a step to far ;-)

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:51 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If that's not hard to do, that would at least allow us to trap any occasions when this happens...

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:29
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 15:01:41 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:01:41 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F154@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4EB@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F154@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F8@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

Well if you gifted they wouldn't have an old version without the code in...??

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:58 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I did gift them, yes.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:54
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Julian, did you create and gift to the person or just send them the HTML to paste in?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:47 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.
I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.
Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.
?

________________________________
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk<mailto:J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c6219%2cen.html>

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html<http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name%2c15691%2cen.html>

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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_______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev

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Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 15:02:57 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:02:57 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F5@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F144@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F5@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F15D@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

Well, if you're not right, it will never trip. If you are, we might catch some otherwise unfound scenarios.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 15:00
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yes, but only if I'm right... would be great to be able to reproduce...

I have a rough list for the new editor and copy+paste and history were too things that I was hoping we could implement...

I've got live multi editing down too (I'm thinking Google Docs here) but might be a step to far ;-)

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:51 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If that's not hard to do, that would at least allow us to trap any occasions when this happens...

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:29
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 15:05:12 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:05:12 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F8@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>,
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>,
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<BLU177-W28BDBA827B8EEF1DB937E5A7940@phx.gbl>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4EB@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F154@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F8@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F161@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

There is the potential for user error, yes, if that's what you mean...

There's nothing wrong with me making and then gifting the files to someone to then instantiate content from, right? They should get a copy, in this case of an LO with about three different pages types set up with some custom code in them to display logos and an extra UI button.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 15:02
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Well if you gifted they wouldn't have an old version without the code in...??

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:58 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I did gift them, yes.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:54
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Julian, did you create and gift to the person or just send them the HTML to paste in?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Dave Burnett
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:47 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The puzzler is the dropping of complete nodes.
I guess it could be a parsing issue, but Google doesn't cough up any precedent.
Almost like it's loading a ghost/previous version.
?

________________________________
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk<mailto:J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk>
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:29:08 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
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Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
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Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
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Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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_______________________________________________ Xerte-dev mailing list Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev

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Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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From xerte at pgogywebstuff.com  Thu Feb  6 15:14:43 2014
From: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com (Pat L (pgogy))
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:14:43 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAO2PinOcBYOnAxySnz0SPTZs9JDQVTTPNucMtO8yzMqO2qT-Sg@mail.gmail.com>

that was my thinking, the editor is dropping the node.

Simple node count before loading?

What John says is accurate - if string length not equal to the file length
then error and don't save.

The problem (to me) is you have lost work, because the XML is invalid some
how. Expecting the server to tell you which node is wrong is odd, given the
editor could check first before saving and highlight the problem. All the
server can do is the same, check the XML and then tell the editor?




On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Smith, John <J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk> wrote:

>  I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then
> the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...
>
>
>
> It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and
> shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the
> truncating xml?
>
>
>
> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes
> me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out
> what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> John Smith
>
> Learning Technologist
>
> School of Health & Life Sciences
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
> xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> > I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the
> examples you've seen using those pages?
>
>
>
> I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her
> prototype.
>
>
>
> I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow
> getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the
> recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in
> it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had
> switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further
> information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used
> there.
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Ron Mitchell
> *Sent:* 06 February 2014 11:16
> *To:* 'For Xerte technical developers'
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit
> your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change
> the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made
> changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for
> all when this is a rare and minority issue.
>
>
>
> Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is
> so intermittant.
>
>
>
> I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions
> (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause
> this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without
> broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.
>
>
>
> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the
> examples you've seen using those pages?
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* 06 February 2014 10:49
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not
> actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't
> think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly.
> Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might
> be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code,
> there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.
>
>
>
> One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish'
> dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then
> over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no
> way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is
> 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Ron Mitchell
> *Sent:* 06 February 2014 10:15
> *To:* 'For Xerte technical developers'
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what
> to do when it happens.
>
>
>
> But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine
> how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss
>
>
>
> So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview
> is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are
> briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop
> editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.
>
>
>
> I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the
> various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it
> happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare
> occurrence?
>
>
>
> I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* 06 February 2014 09:48
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup
> we need, it's a history of the edits?
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Ron Mitchell
> *Sent:* 05 February 2014 16:57
> *To:* 'For Xerte technical developers'
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after
> the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored
> backup it probably wouldn't help.
>
>
>
> At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see
> if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or
> two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server
> and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can
> quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* 05 February 2014 16:16
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of
> the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved
> adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration
> and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype
> and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to
> duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't
> experience any problems myself.
>
>
>
> I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could
> easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort
> of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Smith, John
> *Sent:* 05 February 2014 16:10
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this...
> something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into
> the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were
> then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its
> properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.
>
>
>
> Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> John Smith
>
> Learning Technologist
>
> School of Health & Life Sciences
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University
>
>
>
> *From:* xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Julian Tenney
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Lost Data
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had
> here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both
> cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact,
> with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen
> data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at
> the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving,
> right?)
>
>
>
> Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a
> problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported
> here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In
> the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but
> none has been forthcoming.
>
>
>
> Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place
> some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML
> going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?
>
>
>
> Julian
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
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> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
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>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
> SC021474
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
> Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
>
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
> Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
> partners.
>
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
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> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
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>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
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> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
> SC021474
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
> Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
>
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
> Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
> partners.
>
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Thu Feb  6 15:24:35 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 15:24:35 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F15D@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4D0@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F0E9@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4DD@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F144@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD4F5@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F15D@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD505@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

True...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 3:03 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Well, if you're not right, it will never trip. If you are, we might catch some otherwise unfound scenarios.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 15:00
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yes, but only if I'm right... would be great to be able to reproduce...

I have a rough list for the new editor and copy+paste and history were too things that I was hoping we could implement...

I've got live multi editing down too (I'm thinking Google Docs here) but might be a step to far ;-)

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:51 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If that's not hard to do, that would at least allow us to trap any occasions when this happens...

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 14:29
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

If thinking a bit of code in the editor that validates what it has loaded?

Like the routine we added to solve the false Upload OK messages - we upload and then check for the existence of a file...

What if, after loading into the editor, the editor sends it back out to a php script which checks it against what is on the server - if they don't match then we have a parsing issue... that is assuming that I am right - I have been known to be wrong on occasion...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 2:05 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

You know a lot more about the sessions thing than I do, so that is reassuring. If what you say is right (I think it might be) then the answer would be to not save and not publish, though of course a save is created when you click play - so how to preserve the good xml which would be on the server?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:59
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I don't think the session bug can cause this... if the session drops then the save.php will not save the data that has been posted to it...

It also checks the length of what it has received with what it expects and shouldn't save if different... was this not introduced to solve the truncating xml?

The fact that a complete node is missing and that the xml is valid makes me think that the editor has not loaded it properly and then saved back out what it had parsed correctly, minus the missing node...

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 1:16 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her prototype.

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used there.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for all when this is a rare and minority issue.

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is so intermittant.

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally) and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems slightly or completely different.

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the examples you've seen using those pages?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly. Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be (we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish' dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is 'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to do when it happens.

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare occurrence?

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we need, it's a history of the edits?

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it probably wouldn't help.

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

Cheers
Ron

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any problems myself.

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

Hi,

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this... something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its properly wrapped in CDATA blocks.

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases, the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has been forthcoming.

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

Julian


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.



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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

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From ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk  Thu Feb  6 13:53:46 2014
From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk (Ron Mitchell)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 13:53:46 -0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EC9E@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD405@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2ECCA@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<00b701cf2293$4955f260$dc01d720$@co.uk>	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EE55@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<004e01cf2324$3cee2ab0$b6ca8010$@co.uk>	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2EF08@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>	<006b01cf232c$cb8d4500$62a7cf00$@co.uk>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE8C2F075@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <00c501cf2342$dce061a0$96a124e0$@co.uk>

So many variables! ;-)

 

Tab nave wasn't a robust theory just that Alistair had problems and used tab
nav but that was broken xml and probably a different issue related to
connectivity.

 

So I think the only other example I know about is the one raised by Mohamed
using the sandpit and I don't think he's answered your questions. We could
ask again but you probably have a better opportunity to narrow it down from
your examples?

 

I can't say I've seen that session  issue of seeing someone elses lo's since
the old sandpit was shut down. But that happened more with IE then and I
don't regularly use Firefox apart from specific testing.

 

Tom - have any of your users reported this?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 13:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

> I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the
examples you've seen using those pages?

 

I don't think so, at least, I hadn't put any of those pages in her
prototype.

 

I have a feeling it is related to the Firefox session thing, and somehow
getting old data? Is that possible? There is a bug where if you empty the
recycle bin, sometimes your workspace refreshes with someone else's LOs in
it. My user was using Chrome, but due to the recent problems there had
switched to Firefox. Our other user has been reluctant to share any further
information unfortunately, so I'm not sure which browser was being used
there.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 11:16
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Or change the publish message? e.g. you only need to click yes to commit
your changes to the versions others will see. Again I wonder if we change
the publish reminder for all we'll get a lot of enquiries saying I've made
changes but my learners aren't seeing them. Again seems like changing for
all when this is a rare and minority issue.

 

Agreed it's probably not the best idea to alert users to a problem that is
so intermittant.

 

I think we have had a broken xml problem in previous versions (occasionally)
and it certainly seems like connectivity problems can cause this judging by
the problems Alistair had but this lost pages without broken xml issue ssems
slightly or completely different.

 

I still wonder if it's tab nav and/or tab nav+ related too - were the
examples you've seen using those pages?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:49
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

I'm also wary of suggesting we might have a problem that we might not
actually have! Most users aren't doing any funky html stuff, so I don't
think most users are at risk, if there is something not escaping properly.
Also, most users aren't on 2.1, which is where I think this problem might be
(we've never seen it before 2.1) and even if we add some safety code, there
will be a lot of older installs out there without it.

 

One thing that I wonder is whether to remove the 'do you want to publish'
dialog, because people just get in the habit of saying 'yes' and then
over-write the data.xml with the duff preview.xml, and then you've got no
way back: every single time lost data has cropped up, my first question is
'did you publish the file' and the answer every time is 'yes'. Doh.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 06 February 2014 10:15
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Yeah I know what you mean but I was thinking of then prompting users what to
do when it happens. 

 

But yes a history of edits of some kind sounds good but I can't imagine how
that would work e.g. any single edit could cause the loss 

 

So thinking out loud perhaps each time a change is made a copy of preview is
also created but up to a max of say 5 then rotated. All users are briefed
that if they ever notice a problem when editing/previewing to stop editing
at that point and notify their sys admin with details.

 

I wonder if before doing any work on this we need to send a message to the
various mailing lists etc asking for specific details if and when it
happened? Or would that cause a mis-placed concern given this is a rare
occurrence?

 

I just wish we could reproduce or had a definitive example :-(

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 06 February 2014 09:48
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

I think you'd end up backing up the broken file. It's not really a backup we
need, it's a history of the edits?

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron Mitchell
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:57
To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

The problem also is that it's not 100% clear if this happens only after the
change that caused the break. So even if we got hold of a restored backup it
probably wouldn't help.

 

At some point but probably not until middle of next week I'm going to see if
I can automate my own local back up of the user-files folders on one or two
of the Techdis installations. At the moment the backups are off-server and I
don't have access. If I can automate local backups at least I can quickly
get to the working xml as soon as someone reports this.

 

Cheers

Ron

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:16
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

No idea. In the case here the html was all escaped in CDATA, being part of
the main page text - I wrote it to do some custom stuff, which involved
adding a custom button to each page to display a transcript for narration
and a couple of other things. Once I'd sorted it out, I made a prototype and
gave it to the author to duplicate, with a set of pages set up to duplicate
so she could crack on with the content quickly. I didn't experience any
problems myself.

 

I suspect in both cases, the user has limited html skills. They could easily
have left a tag unclosed, or an attribute without a quote, the sort of thing
that I'm (a bit) less likely to do.

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Smith, John
Sent: 05 February 2014 16:10
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

I suspect that the custom HTML is your best link to reproducing this.
something in there has probably caused the nodes not to load properly into
the Flash editor and then when it was written back out those nodes were then
overwritten. This is the problem with mixing XML and HTML, unless its
properly wrapped in CDATA blocks. 

 

Do you have any clue as to what was in the HTML?

 

Regards,

 

John Smith

Learning Technologist

School of Health & Life Sciences

Glasgow Caledonian University

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian Tenney
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 3:59 PM
To: For Xerte technical developers (xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk)
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Lost Data

 

Hi,

 

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same data loss we had here
last week, and that was reported on the Xerte list yesterday. In both cases,
the user reported 'lost pages'. Looking at the xml it was intact, with a
closing </learningObject> tag: that's the first time I've ever seen data
loss with a valid xml file left over (I would expect it to truncate at the
point the file broke, and safety code should stop that then saving, right?)

 

Maybe it's just coincidence, but I'm a bit worried there might be a problem
we don't know about causing data to get lost. In the case reported here, I
don't suspect (highly) user error (it's always a possibility). In the case
on the Xerte list I'm less certain. I've asked for more info, but none has
been forthcoming.

 

Obviously we need to try and reproduce it if possible, or put in place some
sort of safety mechanism. I did notice that both had some custom HTML going
on in the code. Any ideas or insight?

 

Julian

 

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Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number
SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the
Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en
.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career
Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland
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http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,e
n.html

 

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This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Fri Feb  7 14:44:56 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:44:56 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Bug in the installer from Github
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD5CF@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

Hi all,

We appear to have a bug in the installer that is on Github (and presumably in the wild). I have logged two issues on Github and think it relates to a bug that I've seen in the Forum.

We are trying to start the session AFTER content has been sent on a number of pages so I think it will break all new setups. This gives us the first error.


Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by (output started at /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php:3) in /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php on line 4

Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent (output started at /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php:3) in /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php on line 4
Sorry, the attempt to open database using account root failed. MySQL reports the following error -

But then, after moving the session_start() to the beginning of the file and going through again, I get this

1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 1


I'm sure someone else got this also...

If I revert back to the beginning and do an XAMPP install instead of a full install then it appears to work fine so there "might" be an error in  the full server setup routines when used to install to XAMPP.

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
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From reijnders at tor.nl  Fri Feb  7 20:20:22 2014
From: reijnders at tor.nl (Tom Reijnders)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 21:20:22 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Bug in the installer from Github
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD5CF@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF7EBD5CF@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <52F54006.3090908@tor.nl>

I fixed this last week, because someone else reported this too, I did't 
have the time to commit it yet.

Smith, John schreef op 7-2-2014 15:44:
>
> Hi all,
>
> We appear to have a bug in the installer that is on Github (and 
> presumably in the wild). I have logged two issues on Github and think 
> it relates to a bug that I've seen in the Forum.
>
> We are trying to start the session AFTER content has been sent on a 
> number of pages so I think it will break all new setups. This gives us 
> the first error.
>
> Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session 
> cookie - headers already sent by (output started at 
> /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php:3) in 
> /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php on line 4
>
> Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session 
> cache limiter - headers already sent (output started at 
> /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php:3) in 
> /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php on line 4
>
> Sorry, the attempt to open database using account root failed. MySQL 
> reports the following error -
>
> But then, after moving the session_start() to the beginning of the 
> file and going through again, I get this
>
> 1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that 
> corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use 
> near '' at line 1
>
> I'm sure someone else got this also...
>
> If I revert back to the beginning and do an XAMPP install instead of a 
> full install then it appears to work fine so there "might" be an error 
> in  the full server setup routines when used to install to XAMPP.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Smith
>
> Learning Technologist
>
> School of Health & Life Sciences
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University
>
>
> Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number 
> SC021474
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Widening Participation Initiative of 
> the Year 2009 and Herald Society's Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html
>
> Winner: Times Higher Education's Outstanding Support for Early Career 
> Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland 
> partners.
> http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee 
> and may contain confidential information. If you have received this 
> message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete 
> it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in 
> this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by 
> the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the 
> University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an 
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your 
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email 
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as 
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xerte-dev mailing list
> Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev

-- 
--

Tom Reijnders
TOR Informatica
Chopinlaan 27
5242HM Rosmalen
Tel: 073 5226191
Fax: 073 5226196

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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Fri Feb  7 21:38:06 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 21:38:06 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Bug in the installer from Github
Message-ID: <if1im9vmsscvbef4ks1j6wbw.1391809084513@email.android.com>

Ah ok. Great.

Regards

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health and Life Sciences

Sent from Samsung Galaxy SII


Tom Reijnders <reijnders at tor.nl> wrote:


I fixed this last week, because someone else reported this too, I did't have the time to commit it yet.

Smith, John schreef op 7-2-2014 15:44:
Hi all,

We appear to have a bug in the installer that is on Github (and presumably in the wild). I have logged two issues on Github and think it relates to a bug that I?ve seen in the Forum.

We are trying to start the session AFTER content has been sent on a number of pages so I think it will break all new setups. This gives us the first error.


Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cookie - headers already sent by (output started at /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php:3) in /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php on line 4

Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent (output started at /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php:3) in /Users/xxx/Sites/XOT_WORKING/setup/page_password.php on line 4
Sorry, the attempt to open database using account root failed. MySQL reports the following error -

But then, after moving the session_start() to the beginning of the file and going through again, I get this

1064 - You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 1


I?m sure someone else got this also?

If I revert back to the beginning and do an XAMPP install instead of a full install then it appears to work fine so there ?might? be an error in  the full server setup routines when used to install to XAMPP.

Regards,

John Smith
Learning Technologist
School of Health & Life Sciences
Glasgow Caledonian University


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.




_______________________________________________
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Fax: 073 5226196




This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html


From thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk  Mon Feb 10 21:51:03 2014
From: thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk (Thomas Rochford (Jiscadvance))
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:51:03 -0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Coding problem with LItESPEED Server
Message-ID: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>

Good Evening,
 
I felt I ought to alert you to a coding problem/bug which makes toolkits
inoperable when using the LITESPEED Server. This claims to be a faster
version of Apache and is in  use on a number of hosting sites, in the
current case, EZPZ which is a very low cost moodle hosting service. I don't
know enough about this to understand the problem fully, but the following
are the symptoms,
 
When selecting a tab from the top of the folder management page, e.g.
selecting 'Workspace' and then 'properties' the Litespeed server throws a
wobbly (i.e. a 404 message)  because it can't find
"/toolkits/workspaceproperties". Looking at the code below, this would seem
to be because XOT seems to think it's dealing with an apache server. I have
commented out the offending sections and it now correctly displays the
Workspace Properties window.
 

        case "workspaceproperties": if(site_apache=="true"){

/*            return url; 

        }else{ */

              return url + ".php"

        }
 
Obviously this is only a one-off fix, but I guess the test for 'site_apache'
needs to be rewritten so that I doesn't include LITESPEED. Phpinfo gives 
 
'_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              LiteSpeed'
 
For the Litespeed Server and 
 
'_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              Apache'
 
For  the Apache one, so perhaps that could be tested. Alternatively the
headers return by the Litespeed server also make it plain as shown below
 
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:44:13 GMT
Server: LiteSpeed
Connection: close
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.26
Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=1535f76d11842885a64c9705a6d42565; path=/
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0,
pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 2719
 
Kindest regards, Thomas
 
 

 

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From ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk  Mon Feb 10 22:08:38 2014
From: ronm at mitchellmedia.co.uk (Ron Mitchell)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:08:38 -0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Coding problem with LItESPEED Server
In-Reply-To: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>
References: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <003c01cf26ac$a7443810$f5cca830$@co.uk>

Hi Thomas

hope all is well.

that case statement doesn't actually check if it's an apache server so I
doubt that's the issue here. The apache check is to see if apache has been
set to true either during install or via management and by default it's
false. If it's true it looks for a .htaccess file in the root of the install
and uses the mod_rewrite rules in that file to use urls like /play_55 rather
than /play.pm?template_id=55

 

What's the PHP version on the Lightspeed server? If it's 5.5+ I think that's
more likely to be the problem due to the change in mysql connectivity.

 

Otherwise the problem lies elsewhere.

 

HTH

Ron

 

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
[mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Thomas
Rochford (Jiscadvance)
Sent: 10 February 2014 21:51
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Coding problem with LItESPEED Server

 

Good Evening,
 
I felt I ought to alert you to a coding problem/bug which makes toolkits
inoperable when using the LITESPEED Server. This claims to be a faster
version of Apache and is in  use on a number of hosting sites, in the
current case, EZPZ which is a very low cost moodle hosting service. I don't
know enough about this to understand the problem fully, but the following
are the symptoms,
 
When selecting a tab from the top of the folder management page, e.g.
selecting 'Workspace' and then 'properties' the Litespeed server throws a
wobbly (i.e. a 404 message)  because it can't find
"/toolkits/workspaceproperties". Looking at the code below, this would seem
to be because XOT seems to think it's dealing with an apache server. I have
commented out the offending sections and it now correctly displays the
Workspace Properties window.
 

        case "workspaceproperties": if(site_apache=="true"){

/*            return url; 

        }else{ */

              return url + ".php"

        }
 
Obviously this is only a one-off fix, but I guess the test for 'site_apache'
needs to be rewritten so that I doesn't include LITESPEED. Phpinfo gives 
 
'_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              LiteSpeed'
 
For the Litespeed Server and 
 
'_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              Apache'
 
For  the Apache one, so perhaps that could be tested. Alternatively the
headers return by the Litespeed server also make it plain as shown below
 
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:44:13 GMT
Server: LiteSpeed
Connection: close
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.26
Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=1535f76d11842885a64c9705a6d42565; path=/
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0,
pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 2719
 
Kindest regards, Thomas
 
 

 

 

This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not
use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any
attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do
not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.

 

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From xerte at pgogywebstuff.com  Mon Feb 10 22:18:42 2014
From: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com (Pat L (pgogy))
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 22:18:42 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Coding problem with LItESPEED Server
In-Reply-To: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>
References: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAO2PinO4CCPFr_fp6wRsdrcYHZjv4SguCRKMVS3h9imFyFAezQ@mail.gmail.com>

it isn't apache it's htaccess - just set apache to be false on the
management side


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Thomas Rochford (Jiscadvance) <
thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk> wrote:

> Good Evening,
>
>
>
> I felt I ought to alert you to a coding problem/bug which makes toolkits inoperable when using the LITESPEED Server. This claims to be a faster version of Apache and is in  use on a number of hosting sites, in the current case, EZPZ which is a very low cost moodle hosting service. I don't know enough about this to understand the problem fully, but the following are the symptoms,
>
>
>
> When selecting a tab from the top of the folder management page, e.g. selecting 'Workspace' and then 'properties' the Litespeed server throws a wobbly (i.e. a 404 message)  because it can't find "/toolkits/workspaceproperties". Looking at the code below, this would seem to be because XOT seems to think it's dealing with an apache server. I have commented out the offending sections and it now correctly displays the Workspace Properties window.
>
>
>
>         case "workspaceproperties": if(site_apache=="true"){
>
> /*            return url;
>
>         }else{ */
>
>               return url + ".php"
>
>         }
>
>
>
> Obviously this is only a one-off fix, but I guess the test for 'site_apache' needs to be rewritten so that I doesn't include LITESPEED. Phpinfo gives
>
>
>
> '_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              LiteSpeed'
>
>
>
> For the Litespeed Server and
>
>
>
> '_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              Apache'
>
>
>
> For  the Apache one, so perhaps that could be tested. Alternatively the headers return by the Litespeed server also make it plain as shown below
>
>
>
> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
>
> Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:44:13 GMT
>
> Server: LiteSpeed
>
> Connection: close
>
> X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.26
>
> Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=1535f76d11842885a64c9705a6d42565; path=/
>
> Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
>
> Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
>
> Pragma: no-cache
>
> Content-Type: text/html
>
> Content-Length: 2719
>
>
>
> Kindest regards, Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xerte-dev mailing list
> Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
>
>
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From thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk  Mon Feb 10 23:04:31 2014
From: thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk (thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 23:04:31 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: =?utf-8?q?Coding_problem_with_LItESPEED_Server?=
In-Reply-To: <CAO2PinO4CCPFr_fp6wRsdrcYHZjv4SguCRKMVS3h9imFyFAezQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>,
	<CAO2PinO4CCPFr_fp6wRsdrcYHZjv4SguCRKMVS3h9imFyFAezQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52f95b77.8d3ec20a.6875.ffffd837@mx.google.com>

Thank you all very much for this advice. I?ll get back on the case tomorrow. Could that also account for another problem with the session_id not set message? 






Kindest Regards,
Thomas
==========================================================
Thomas Rochford  |  e-Learning Advisor  |  Jisc RSC Eastern
Tel: 01223 564749 |  Mobile: 07500 669002  |  Skype: cambridge.serendipity
Email: thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk  |  Web: http://www.jiscrsc.ac.uk/eastern 
Cambridge Serendipity, 35 Gough Way, Cambridge, CB3 9LN
For the full range of RSC UK events, resources and blog, visit http://www.jiscrsc.ac.uk





From: Pat L (pgogy)
Sent: ?Monday?, ?10? ?February? ?2014 ?22?:?18
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk





it isn't apache it's htaccess - just set apache to be false on the management side 




On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Thomas Rochford (Jiscadvance) <thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk> wrote:



Good Evening,
 
I felt I ought to alert you to a coding problem/bug which makes toolkits inoperable when using the LITESPEED Server. This claims to be a faster version of Apache and is in  use on a number of hosting sites, in the current case, EZPZ which is a very low cost moodle hosting service. I don?t know enough about this to understand the problem fully, but the following are the symptoms,
 
When selecting a tab from the top of the folder management page, e.g. selecting ?Workspace? and then ?properties? the Litespeed server throws a wobbly (i.e. a 404 message)  because it can?t find ?/toolkits/workspaceproperties?. Looking at the code below, this would seem to be because XOT seems to think it?s dealing with an apache server. I have commented out the offending sections and it now correctly displays the Workspace Properties window.
 

        case "workspaceproperties": if(site_apache=="true"){

/*            return url; 

        }else{ */

              return url + ".php"
        }
 
Obviously this is only a one-off fix, but I guess the test for ?site_apache? needs to be rewritten so that I doesn?t include LITESPEED. Phpinfo gives 
 
?_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              LiteSpeed?
 
For the Litespeed Server and 
 
?_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              Apache?
 
For  the Apache one, so perhaps that could be tested. Alternatively the headers return by the Litespeed server also make it plain as shown below
 
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:44:13 GMT
Server: LiteSpeed
Connection: close
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.26
Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=1535f76d11842885a64c9705a6d42565; path=/
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 2719
 
Kindest regards, Thomas
 
 

 


This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


_______________________________________________
Xerte-dev mailing list
Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Tue Feb 11 09:50:39 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:50:39 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Coding problem with LItESPEED Server
In-Reply-To: <52f95b77.8d3ec20a.6875.ffffd837@mx.google.com>
References: <01b301cf26aa$3201d370$96057a50$@jiscadvance.ac.uk>,
	<CAO2PinO4CCPFr_fp6wRsdrcYHZjv4SguCRKMVS3h9imFyFAezQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<52f95b77.8d3ec20a.6875.ffffd837@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE948494F@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

I would love to see the session_id problem fixed. It happens pretty much every single time I log in, and it?s frustrating.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk
Sent: 10 February 2014 23:05
To: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com; xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Coding problem with LItESPEED Server

Thank you all very much for this advice. I?ll get back on the case tomorrow. Could that also account for another problem with the session_id not set message?

Kindest Regards,
Thomas
==========================================================
Thomas Rochford  |  e-Learning Advisor  |  Jisc RSC Eastern
Tel: 01223 564749 |  Mobile: 07500 669002  |  Skype: cambridge.serendipity
Email: thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk<mailto:thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk>  |  Web: http://www.jiscrsc.ac.uk/eastern
Cambridge Serendipity, 35 Gough Way, Cambridge, CB3 9LN
For the full range of RSC UK events, resources and blog, visit http://www.jiscrsc.ac.uk

From: Pat L (pgogy)<mailto:xerte at pgogywebstuff.com>
Sent: ?Monday?, ?10? ?February? ?2014 ?22?:?18
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>

it isn't apache it's htaccess - just set apache to be false on the management side

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Thomas Rochford (Jiscadvance) <thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk<mailto:thomas.rochford at jiscadvance.ac.uk>> wrote:

Good Evening,



I felt I ought to alert you to a coding problem/bug which makes toolkits inoperable when using the LITESPEED Server. This claims to be a faster version of Apache and is in  use on a number of hosting sites, in the current case, EZPZ which is a very low cost moodle hosting service. I don?t know enough about this to understand the problem fully, but the following are the symptoms,



When selecting a tab from the top of the folder management page, e.g. selecting ?Workspace? and then ?properties? the Litespeed server throws a wobbly (i.e. a 404 message)  because it can?t find ?/toolkits/workspaceproperties?. Looking at the code below, this would seem to be because XOT seems to think it?s dealing with an apache server. I have commented out the offending sections and it now correctly displays the Workspace Properties window.


        case "workspaceproperties": if(site_apache=="true"){
/*            return url;
        }else{ */
              return url + ".php"

        }



Obviously this is only a one-off fix, but I guess the test for ?site_apache? needs to be rewritten so that I doesn?t include LITESPEED. Phpinfo gives



?_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              LiteSpeed?



For the Litespeed Server and



?_SERVER["SERVER_SOFTWARE"]              Apache?



For  the Apache one, so perhaps that could be tested. Alternatively the headers return by the Litespeed server also make it plain as shown below



HTTP/1.1 200 OK

Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:44:13 GMT

Server: LiteSpeed

Connection: close

X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.26

Set-Cookie: PHPSESSID=1535f76d11842885a64c9705a6d42565; path=/

Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT

Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0

Pragma: no-cache

Content-Type: text/html

Content-Length: 2719



Kindest regards, Thomas







This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.

This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.


_______________________________________________
Xerte-dev mailing list
Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev

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From katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be  Mon Feb 17 19:46:17 2014
From: katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be (Katrien Bernaerts)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 20:46:17 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Registration Xerte Days Belgium
Message-ID: <003a01cf2c18$eca160b0$c5e42210$@toll-net.be>

Hello, 

As you know we are organizing on 5 and 6 June, a Xerte 2 days. Through this form <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IYVv0SKh_sl8-yJD1xBw56MeyU8hj_eut4IR9BMFU9g/viewform>  you can sign up for 5 and / or 6 June. Both days will be held in Leuven (Belgium). For the

AGM on the 5 of June you would provide the content.  The ?Flemish? users day  will be our responsibility.  The program for June 6 will follow later this month.

Unfortunately, we can?t pay your travel and accommodation costs. You have to book your room by yourself.

 

We can recommend you Ibis Budget hotel:

 

Hotel ibis budget Leuven Centrum -  Martelarenlaan 10             ?77,5/person 1 night

 <http://www.ibis.com/nl/hotel-6682-ibis-budget-leuven-centrum/index.shtml> http://www.ibis.com/nl/hotel-6682-ibis-budget-leuven-centrum/index.shtml

 

Regards,

Katrien

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Katrien Bernaerts | Projectbegeleider Toll-net

 

Mobiel: +32 496 523058

Tel.: +32 2 514 19 00 (Provinciaal Onderwijs Vlaanderen)

e-mail:  <mailto:katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be> katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be   website:  <http://www.toll-net.be/> http://www.toll-net.be

skype: katrienb                                                twitter: kbernaerts

linkedin:  <http://be.linkedin.com/pub/katrien-bernaerts/10/55b/95> http://be.linkedin.com/pub/katrien-bernaerts/10/55b/95

 

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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Fri Feb 21 10:34:03 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:34:03 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] FW: Installing Xerte on a Web Server
In-Reply-To: <01c001cf2eec$17a829d0$46f87d70$@ucd.ie>
References: <01c001cf2eec$17a829d0$46f87d70$@ucd.ie>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F0C8@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

Just had this through from a user out in the world: any obvious things? Otherwise I'll get him to join and post here,
J



Hi Julian

I am trying to do a full install on a web server. I keep getting error 500

Error 500 - Internal Server Error
An error was encountered while processing your request. Typically this is a temporary condition.
This is before any prompts appear eg. When I go to http://www.ucdblogs.org/xolt/ where I have just uploaded the Xerte online toolkits files
Any suggestions?

Also - File Permissions (as in page 19 of user guide) do I need to set the contents of the folder as well as the folder to chmod 777
Thanks
Regards





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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Fri Feb 21 11:15:56 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:15:56 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] FW: Installing Xerte on a Web Server
In-Reply-To: <01e001cf2ef4$be0db120$3a291360$@ucd.ie>
References: <01c001cf2eec$17a829d0$46f87d70$@ucd.ie>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F0C6@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<01e001cf2ef4$be0db120$3a291360$@ucd.ie>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F117@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

False alarm:


Thanks. I have solved the problem - not entirely sure how after about 2 days.
Error 500 is all about permissions. I reset the CHMOD settings - my server does not like chmod 777
Manually installed DB and user - testing it now.

Thanks for all your help
I'll post any future questions to the listserv

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From xerte at pgogywebstuff.com  Fri Feb 21 11:39:10 2014
From: xerte at pgogywebstuff.com (Pat L (pgogy))
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:39:10 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: FW: Installing Xerte on a Web Server
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F0C8@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <01c001cf2eec$17a829d0$46f87d70$@ucd.ie>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F0C8@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <CAO2PinN-ctd1CKU5RbZJY_Mk-1m--o+R-F8mBPK2BO5OA45RMQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.ucdblogs.org/xolt/

looks ok to me - and yay! guest access, lets all go make LOs :)


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Julian Tenney <
Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk> wrote:

> Just had this through from a user out in the world: any obvious things?
> Otherwise I'll get him to join and post here,
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Julian
>
>
>
> I am trying to do a full install on a web server. I keep getting error 500
>
>
>
> *Error 500 - Internal Server Error*
>
> An error was encountered while processing your request. Typically this is
> a temporary condition.
>
> This is before any prompts appear eg. When I go to
> http://www.ucdblogs.org/xolt/ where I have just uploaded the Xerte online
> toolkits files
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> Also - File Permissions (as in page 19 of user guide) do I need to set the
> contents of the folder as well as the folder to chmod 777
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xerte-dev mailing list
> Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
>
>
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From i.donkervoort at 12change.eu  Fri Feb 21 15:22:47 2014
From: i.donkervoort at 12change.eu (Inge Donkervoort 12Change)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:22:47 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Any one familiar with the tool h5p?
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F0C8@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <01c001cf2eec$17a829d0$46f87d70$@ucd.ie>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9B4F0C8@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <53076F47.9080809@12change.eu>

Hi,

Today someone pointed me on this tool http://h5p.org/. Does anyone have 
experience with this or used it with Xerte?

Bye,
Inge

12Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu <mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu <http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter <http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>

Op 21-2-2014 11:34, Julian Tenney schreef:
>
> Just had this through from a user out in the world: any obvious 
> things? Otherwise I'll get him to join and post here,
>
> J
>
> Hi Julian
>
> I am trying to do a full install on a web server. I keep getting error 500
>
> *Error 500 - Internal Server Error*
>
> An error was encountered while processing your request. Typically this 
> is a temporary condition.
>
> This is before any prompts appear eg. When I go to 
> http://www.ucdblogs.org/xolt/ where I have just uploaded the Xerte 
> online toolkits files
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Also -- File Permissions (as in page 19 of user guide) do I need to 
> set the contents of the folder as well as the folder to chmod 777
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards
>
>
> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee 
> and may contain confidential information. If you have received this 
> message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete 
> it.   Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in 
> this message or in any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by 
> the author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the 
> University of Nottingham.
>
> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an 
> attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your 
> computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email 
> communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as 
> permitted by UK legislation.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xerte-dev mailing list
> Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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From shashidhar.mallepally at valuelabs.net  Wed Feb 26 09:02:38 2014
From: shashidhar.mallepally at valuelabs.net (Shashidhar Mallepally)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:32:38 +0530
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Using WYSIWYG editor for editing content instead of the
	standard textbox
Message-ID: <027b01cf32d1$7fbab590$7f3020b0$@mallepally@valuelabs.net>

Hi,

 

How to add WYSIWYG editor for editing content instead of the standard
textbox while creating/editing learning object? 

 

And also, how to customize the add/edit screen with extra options like
multiple file upload, extra input box for holding instructions, etc..? 

 

Is this kind of customization possible with exerte toolkits. Please help me
out on this..

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 


Regards,


 


Shashidhar M

	
	
	
	
	
	
	

 

 

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From reijnders at tor.nl  Wed Feb 26 10:44:34 2014
From: reijnders at tor.nl (Tom Reijnders)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:44:34 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Using WYSIWYG editor for editing content instead of
 the standard textbox
In-Reply-To: <027b01cf32d1$7fbab590$7f3020b0$@mallepally@valuelabs.net>
References: <027b01cf32d1$7fbab590$7f3020b0$@mallepally@valuelabs.net>
Message-ID: <203cd289ff5998040977b95c0d952ba9@server.tor.nl>

It's on the list of future developments..

Its not a customization project though.

Tom 

 On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:32:38 +0530 "Shashidhar Mallepally"  wrote   

 Hi, 

 How to add WYSIWYG editor for editing content instead of the standard textbox
while creating/editing learning object? 

 And also, how to customize the add/edit screen with extra options like
multiple file upload, extra input box for holding instructions, etc..? 

 Is this kind of customization possible with exerte toolkits. Please help me
out on this. 

 Thanks in advance. 

 Regards,  

 SHASHIDHAR M  

 This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and may
contain confidential information. If you have received this message in error,
please send it back to me, and immediately delete it. Please do not use, copy
or disclose the information contained in this message or in any attachment.
Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this email do not necessarily
reflect the views of the University of Nottingham. 

 This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an attachment
may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer system,
you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications with the
University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK legislation.
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From J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk  Wed Feb 26 16:43:54 2014
From: J.J.Smith at gcu.ac.uk (Smith, John)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:43:54 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] LDAP query on the Forum
Message-ID: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>

Hi guys,

There is an LDAP query on the forum but i'm not in a position to answer. It's been there 3 days but no-one is a moderator for the Installation section so it has slipped through...

http://www.xerte.org.uk/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=2&id=292&Itemid=759&lang=en

Regards,

John Smith | Learning Technologist
Room A251, Govan Mbeki Building | School of Health & Life Sciences | Glasgow Caledonian University
Cowcaddens Road | Glasgow | G4 0BA

Glasgow Caledonian University is a registered Scottish charity, number SC021474

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Widening Participation Initiative of the Year 2009 and Herald Society?s Education Initiative of the Year 2009.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,6219,en.html

Winner: Times Higher Education?s Outstanding Support for Early Career Researchers of the Year 2010, GCU as a lead with Universities Scotland partners.
http://www.gcu.ac.uk/newsevents/news/bycategory/theuniversity/1/name,15691,en.html

From katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be  Thu Feb 27 18:42:30 2014
From: katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be (Katrien Bernaerts)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 19:42:30 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Book Accomodation for the Xerte Conference in Belgium
Message-ID: <001e01cf33eb$abf4c4f0$03de4ed0$@toll-net.be>

Hi,

 

You can book accommodation for the Xerte 2 days Conference with the form in
annex.

 

Regards,

Katrien

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------

 

Katrien Bernaerts | Projectbegeleider Toll-net

 

Mobiel: +32 496 523058

Tel.: +32 2 514 19 00 (Provinciaal Onderwijs Vlaanderen)

e-mail:  <mailto:katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be>
katrien.bernaerts at toll-net.be   website:  <http://www.toll-net.be/>
http://www.toll-net.be

skype: katrienb                                                twitter:
kbernaerts

linkedin:  <http://be.linkedin.com/pub/katrien-bernaerts/10/55b/95>
http://be.linkedin.com/pub/katrien-bernaerts/10/55b/95

 

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From i.donkervoort at 12change.eu  Fri Feb 28 10:53:07 2014
From: i.donkervoort at 12change.eu (Inge Donkervoort 12Change)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:53:07 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] No image in transcript reader
In-Reply-To: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
References: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <53106A93.6090503@12change.eu>

Hi,

On the Dutch forum on the Community website someone asked a question I 
can't answer.

    /It should be possible to add an image toa nested page in the
    Transcript reader, but they don't appear. You will get at most a
    flickering image. /
    /Why do I not see them?/


I tried it myself (flash and html5) but it doesn't work. Any ideas?

Bye,
Inge

12Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu <mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu <http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter <http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>

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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Fri Feb 28 11:39:19 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:39:19 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: No image in transcript reader
In-Reply-To: <53106A93.6090503@12change.eu>
References: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<53106A93.6090503@12change.eu>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44B4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

I don?t think the transcript reader supports the image from nested pages.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Inge Donkervoort 12Change
Sent: 28 February 2014 10:53
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
Subject: [Xerte-dev] No image in transcript reader

Hi,

On the Dutch forum on the Community website someone asked a question I can't answer.
It should be possible to add an image to a nested page in the Transcript reader, but they don't appear. You will get at most a flickering image.
Why do I not see them?

I tried it myself (flash and html5) but it doesn't work. Any ideas?

Bye,
Inge
1 2 Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu<mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu<http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter<http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn<http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>


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From i.donkervoort at 12change.eu  Fri Feb 28 11:44:19 2014
From: i.donkervoort at 12change.eu (Inge Donkervoort 12Change)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:44:19 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: No image in transcript reader
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44B4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<53106A93.6090503@12change.eu>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44B4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <53107693.4050706@12change.eu>

The thing is that you can add this as a optional property at the moment...

Bye,
Inge

12Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu <mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu <http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter <http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>

Op 28-2-2014 12:39, Julian Tenney schreef:
>
> I don't think the transcript reader supports the image from nested pages.
>
> *From:*xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk 
> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Inge 
> Donkervoort 12Change
> *Sent:* 28 February 2014 10:53
> *To:* xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] No image in transcript reader
>
> Hi,
>
> On the Dutch forum on the Community website someone asked a question I 
> can't answer.
>
> /I//t should be possible to add an image toa nested page in the 
> Transcript reader, but they don't appear. You will get at most a 
> flickering image. /
> /Why do I//not see them?/
>
>
> I tried it myself (flash and html5) but it doesn't work. Any ideas?
>
> Bye,
> Inge
>
> 12Change
> Chopinlaan 27
> 5242 HM Rosmalen
> T 073-5226195
> F 073-5226196
> E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu <mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
> I www.12change.eu <http://www.12change.eu>
>
> T twitter <http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
> L linkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xerte-dev mailing list
> Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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From Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk  Fri Feb 28 11:46:25 2014
From: Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk (Julian Tenney)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:46:25 +0000
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: No image in transcript reader
In-Reply-To: <53107693.4050706@12change.eu>
References: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<53106A93.6090503@12change.eu>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44B4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<53107693.4050706@12change.eu>
Message-ID: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44C4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>

Yes, because it's a nested page, but not all nested pages' properties are supported in all the places they are used.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Inge Donkervoort 12Change
Sent: 28 February 2014 11:44
To: For Xerte technical developers
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: No image in transcript reader

The thing is that you can add this as a optional property at the moment...

Bye,
Inge
1 2 Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu<mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu<http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter<http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn<http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>

Op 28-2-2014 12:39, Julian Tenney schreef:
I don't think the transcript reader supports the image from nested pages.

From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Inge Donkervoort 12Change
Sent: 28 February 2014 10:53
To: xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: [Xerte-dev] No image in transcript reader

Hi,

On the Dutch forum on the Community website someone asked a question I can't answer.
It should be possible to add an image to a nested page in the Transcript reader, but they don't appear. You will get at most a flickering image.
Why do I not see them?

I tried it myself (flash and html5) but it doesn't work. Any ideas?

Bye,
Inge
1 2 Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu<mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu<http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter<http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn<http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>







_______________________________________________

Xerte-dev mailing list

Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk<mailto:Xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>

http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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From i.donkervoort at 12change.eu  Fri Feb 28 11:58:42 2014
From: i.donkervoort at 12change.eu (Inge Donkervoort 12Change)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:58:42 +0100
Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: No image in transcript reader
In-Reply-To: <12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44C4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
References: <EE0B2AFFDB88B34AA864E00CE98914C22BF90A21BE@ITSEMBXCLUS.enterprise.gcal.ac.uk>
	<53106A93.6090503@12change.eu>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44B4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
	<53107693.4050706@12change.eu>
	<12C67A1EEC419342AF5E59DA31562C3F0CE9DA44C4@EXCHANGE1.ad.nottingham.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <531079F2.1040904@12change.eu>

thx  and have a nice weekend :)

12Change
Chopinlaan 27
5242 HM Rosmalen
T 073-5226195
F 073-5226196
E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu <mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
I www.12change.eu <http://www.12change.eu>

T twitter <http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
L linkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/inge-donkervoort/7/4b/18a>

Op 28-2-2014 12:46, Julian Tenney schreef:
>
> Yes, because it's a nested page, but not all nested pages' properties 
> are supported in all the places they are used.
>
> *From:*xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk 
> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Inge 
> Donkervoort 12Change
> *Sent:* 28 February 2014 11:44
> *To:* For Xerte technical developers
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] Re: No image in transcript reader
>
> The thing is that you can add this as a optional property at the moment...
>
> Bye,
> Inge
>
> 12Change
> Chopinlaan 27
> 5242 HM Rosmalen
> T 073-5226195
> F 073-5226196
> E i.donkervoort at 12change.eu <mailto:i.donkervoort at 12change.eu>
> I www.12change.eu <http://www.12change.eu>
>
> T twitter <http://twitter.com/12ChangeLearn>
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>
>
> Op 28-2-2014 12:39, Julian Tenney schreef:
>
> I don't think the transcript reader supports the image from nested pages.
>
> *From:*xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk 
> <mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk> 
> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *Inge 
> Donkervoort 12Change
> *Sent:* 28 February 2014 10:53
> *To:* xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk 
> <mailto:xerte-dev at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>
> *Subject:* [Xerte-dev] No image in transcript reader
>
> Hi,
>
> On the Dutch forum on the Community website someone asked a question I 
> can't answer.
>
> /I//t should be possible to add an image toa nested page in the 
> Transcript reader, but they don't appear. You will get at most a 
> flickering image. /
> /Why do I//not see them?/
>
>
> I tried it myself (flash and html5) but it doesn't work. Any ideas?
>
> Bye,
> Inge
>
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