[Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
Kemp Johnathan
johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com
Mon Jul 30 22:10:29 BST 2012
That is pretty much what we did.
It worked fine for an ordinary XOT project until you used the TOC.
If you went P1 to P2 to TOC to P8 then the stack would take you back from
P8 to P2, but people who are familiar with a Xerte project, rather than say
a web browser, would expect the final back from P8 to take them to P7.
In answer to Ron's question. Originally the Connector pages gave individual
control over all the navigation buttons. However to try to make them easier
to use the range of choices was simplified. For a Connector page the
navigation can be either all navigation buttons or no navigation buttons.
Connector pages that are most likely to be used for setting up specific
routing include an option available to the page element that defines the
connection exit point to configure the navigation for the destination page.
This offers all navigation or just the back and next buttons. There must be
some navigation if the destination is a none connector page, this
destination setting is less relevant if the destination is another
connector as the setting on the connector page for navigation will reset
the setting made on the exit point. The reason back and next is offered and
not individual control of all buttons was because a historic back button
was available so that back would take you back to the connector page,
whilst next would allow you to move on in the project. The use of the
redirector connector at the end of a sequence of ordinary pages was the
intended way of ending a sequence of ordinary pages to re-direct the user
back into the main project flow again.
Whilst I originally designed things around the availability of control of
every navigation button I think in hind sight that the reduced number of
options is probably less confusing for users and adequate for most needs.
My original interest in having an ability to move both back and forward
through the history was to accommodate learning objects that presented a
decision tree. The historic back button allowed the user to retrace their
steps back up the tree, but then they could if they wanted return down the
tree. However they could always do this anyway by making the same choices
again.
I don't know if this makes anything clearer?
I suspect people need to play around with the connector pages in order to
really appreciate the opportunities they provide and the issues they may
raise.
Kind regards
Johnathan
On 30 July 2012 17:40, Pat Lockley <patrick.lockley at googlemail.com> wrote:
> dumb point
>
> can't you just have a stack of page ids?
>
> Then Back is always the top of the stack?
>
> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Kemp Johnathan
> <johnathan.kemp at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > I guess it comes down to the back button taking you to the page you were
> > previously on, and with connectors, that needs to be historical.
> >
> > If you use a connector as a menu then arguably its no different to using
> the
> > TOC. It is when you use the Connectors as a means to set up specific
> routing
> > through a project that the historical navigation becomes more of an
> issue.
> >
> > However for now the trick of starting a branch with a connector page
> could
> > provide a work-around.
> >
> > I am very aware that there is little familiarity with the Connector pages
> > and limited understanding of the issues and opportunities that connector
> > pages pose in the Xerte / XOT community at present. Perhaps one approach
> > could be to run with what we have now and let the XOT community identify
> > what, if any, issues are felt need addressing in a future release .
> >
> > My use of Connector pages in real projects goes back to the page wizard
> > days before I retired.
> >
> > I have uploaded to the pageWizards section of the svn a project that I
> > developed using the page wizard version of the tabbed navigator
> connector so
> > that you can get a feel for how that page might be used and some of the
> > navigation issues.
> >
> > At the time I used my own custom navigation as no historic back button
> > existed.
> >
> > This project is copyright, so please don't distribute it further.
> >
> > Julian, once you have either taken your own copy or played with it as
> long
> > as you want to, please delete it from the svn.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Johnathan
> >
> > On 30 July 2012 15:27, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I guess it comes down to the back button taking you to the page you were
> >> previously on, and with connectors, that needs to be historical.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I need to see some examples to really get my head around the perms and
> >> combs of the connectors…
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Another idea is a different custom interface that handles the navigation
> >> entirely differently for these situations, and doesn’t confuse users
> used to
> >> the way the various buttons function…
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
> >> Johnathan
> >> Sent: 30 July 2012 15:16
> >>
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope I have positioned this so that there is no additional scrolling
> >> required :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't want to debate against you, I want to work with you to find a
> way
> >> forward :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Connector pages can manage without a historical next.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The lack of a historical back button is only a problem when you use a
> >> mixture of connector and none connector pages and want to set up
> specific
> >> routes through the project. This is because the back button could
> enable the
> >> learner to step "off the route" (which would not be possible with a
> >> historical back button). However if a historical back button is deemed
> >> inappropriate then it may be possible for the learning object author to
> >> avoid the issue by careful use of the Connector pages. If the author
> ensures
> >> that each branch of a "route" starts with a connector page e.g. Plain
> Text
> >> Connector offering a link to the first none connector page in the
> sequence
> >> for that branch, then the learner will not be able to go back to a page
> off
> >> route as the linear back button will take them back to the plain text
> >> connector that started the branch, which would have navigation
> disabled. It
> >> is not as elegant as a historic back button as a solution, but it would
> work
> >> and it would avoid the concerns of having navigation buttons that
> worked in
> >> different ways.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So we could get away with just linear navigation and still use the
> >> Connector pages.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> How does that sound?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 30 July 2012 13:54, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think the problem is the navigation buttons. No one is debating that
> >> routing or branching through content might be useful. But if the
> interface
> >> suddenly starts doing things differently / inconsistently, that is a
> >> problem.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Right now, linear navigation works fine: in linear mode, it works; in
> menu
> >> with page controls, it also works I think; and in menu only, you don’t
> see
> >> the buttons, so it’s not a problem. You hit the TOC to go to the menu;
> you
> >> go next and back through the content. That is consistent, predictable.
> The
> >> buttons always do the same things.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> During testing, the historical back kept surprising me with what
> happened.
> >> That tells me there is a problem with it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Having a next button that is sometimes a next button and sometimes a fwd
> >> button worries me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have always mandated doing branching by jumping to other LOs for the
> sub
> >> sections.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have spent a lot of time here at the University re-working content
> that
> >> had crazy Authorware-era navigation systems, branching etc. In many, it
> was
> >> impossible to find your way back to the information you knew was there,
> but
> >> you couldn’t remember how you got there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Users will not differentiate between ‘linear’ and ‘menu’ driven content,
> >> to them it is just content, and they will expect the buttons to do the
> same
> >> thing every time they click them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, without the connectors in the picture, we don’t really have a
> problem.
> >> I don’t have problem with the connectors per se, but I do have a
> problem
> >> with the implications for an interface that people already know and use.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent: 30 July 2012 12:58
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello Julian,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There is always the possibility for people to create bad stuff. Some of
> >> the worst "e-learning" material I have come across has consisted of a
> series
> >> of pages of information with the odd quiz thrown in on the assumption
> that
> >> this will somehow "test learning". I don't think there is an e-learning
> >> development tool on the planet that can prevent people form creating
> "bad
> >> stuff". However if a software tool is limited in its features it can
> prevent
> >> the creation of more engaging learning objects.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The ability to offer branching (or connections if you prefer) can allow
> >> for the development of learning objects that require users to think and
> make
> >> decisions (including mistakes) and then learn from the results of those
> >> decisions. But any development tool that supports this feature will also
> >> require of the author that they think about how they set up their
> routing
> >> through the project or learning object.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't think that this is about standalone Xerte V XOT in that the
> >> connector pages do not require someone to have access to the structure
> of
> >> the page.
> >>
> >> · The people who are happy with sequential projects simply won't
> >> bother with the Connector pages.
> >>
> >> · Other users will use the simpler connector pages to flag up
> >> pages of interest or provide sub menus, without actually defining
> specific
> >> routes through a project. I am thinking here of the menu connector page,
> >> hotspot image connector and plain text connector.
> >>
> >> · Those who want to set up specific routing will start making
> use
> >> of the tab navigator connector and the redirector connector.
> >>
> >> · It may take some time before anyone embraces the Scenario
> >> connector. But the reaction last September to the demo of the prototype
> page
> >> suggests that there will be some people out there who will be excited
> by it
> >> and will want to make use of it. I think that once a few working
> examples
> >> that use the Scenario page are produced, then interest in the page will
> >> grow. However initially people will have to get their head around what
> it
> >> does and how they can make use of it.
> >>
> >> It seems to me there are a couple of issues that are causing the main
> >> concern.
> >>
> >> 1. The Navigation issue - i.e. the need for a historic back button
> >> when projects are being created that use Connector pages to set up
> specific
> >> routes through a project. Perhaps what might help with this is if the
> back
> >> button icon could change to indicate when a project was using an
> "historic"
> >> back button. This would avoid learner confusion caused by the back
> button
> >> doing something unexpected. Maybe a back arrow with three overlapping
> >> rectangles (a bit like the way the drag-able items stack in the
> time-line
> >> matching pairs page.) would be enough to convey the idea.
> >>
> >> 2. The complexity of some of the pages, in particular the tabbed
> >> Navigator Connector and the Scenario Connector. There is documentation
> to
> >> support the use of these pages. There are already in Xerte and XOT pages
> >> that are not intuitive to use e.g. the Interactive Diagram
> (customHotspots)
> >> which works differently from any other page. The mapstraction page (I
> have
> >> still not figured this one out yet!) There is no documentation to
> support
> >> their use.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> XOT has captured a large audience. Will it really frighten someone off
> XOT
> >> if they can't cope with a particular page? Or will they just ignore that
> >> page type in future and stick with what they are comfy with? Meanwhile
> those
> >> who are eager for more features will start producing even more
> interesting
> >> and diverse learning objects.
> >>
> >> · Is the XOT community best served by assuming a lowest common
> >> denominator and then rejecting anything that might rise above that
> level of
> >> challenge?
> >>
> >> · Will the learners who use XOT generated learning objects have
> a
> >> better learning experience if they are challenged more and have to
> engage
> >> more with their learning?
> >>
> >> · There is an awareness in the XOT community of the new
> >> developments. Expectations have been raised. Do we let down those
> >> expectations now?
> >>
> >> It seems to me that like any group of people XOT users are a diverse
> >> group. Just as there will be some who will only use the simplest of
> pages
> >> and may panic at anything a little different, there will also be others
> who
> >> whilst valuing XOT, would like to be able to do more with it. I remember
> >> Ron's reaction when he saw that some of my pages included a "transition"
> >> property for images - he thought it should be included with all pages
> that
> >> offered images. Ron also, independently came up with an idea for a
> hotspot
> >> image connector page.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We have discussed on prior occasions the merits of being able to set up
> >> routing in a project or learning object. IMHO this is a significant
> feature
> >> that currently XOT lacks and that is offered by some competing
> commercial
> >> products.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At the end of the day it will be your decision whether to include the
> >> connector pages. If you include them, authors will have the opportunity
> to
> >> choose not to use them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 30 July 2012 10:49, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> These issues are making me seriously question whether to release the
> >> connectors as part of toolkits. For standalone developers, then fair
> enough,
> >> the result is up to you, but there is the possibility for people to
> create
> >> bad stuff here, and toolkits shouldn’t let people make bad stuff.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >> Sent: 27 July 2012 19:28
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The functionality would not change depending on the page you were on,
> the
> >> functionality of the navigation would apply to the whole learning
> object.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If connector pages are being used to set up specific routes through a
> >> project than a historic back button is essential. We can probably manage
> >> with a linear next button as the connector pages can be set up so that
> the
> >> navigation is disabled when on a connector page.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Where connector pages are being used to set up routes through a learning
> >> object then a project wide menu is counter productive. I would
> anticipate
> >> any project that is using connector pages to set up specific routes
> through
> >> a project to be implemented using the linear option as it is the only
> option
> >> that does not implement a project wide menu. Perhaps there needs to be
> a new
> >> option "Historic" so that all current Linear projects perform as they
> always
> >> did, but authors can have an option that presents an LO with no start
> menu
> >> and a historic back button.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The user interface will probably appear a little different as the
> >> connector pages will disable the navigation and when non-connector
> pages are
> >> used the option to set navigation on exit of a connector page should be
> >> taken to only provide next and back (i.e. historic back) buttons.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If a menu is required the connector menu will provide the capability to
> >> implement a menu that only offers selected pages, thus restricting
> access to
> >> only appropriate starting points for different sections of the LO.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I can appreciate the concerns that are being expressed.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Connector pages present a new paradigm. LOs that use Connector Pages to
> >> set up routes through LOs are going to provide a different experience
> for
> >> Xerte users. However since there would normally be limited use of menus
> the
> >> fact that the back button is historic may pass largely unnoticed by the
> >> user.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 27 July 2012 10:58, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > if the behaviour of the forward button changes depending on what you
> do
> >>
> >> That would get us onto interfacesfromhell.com. If we ever have to
> explain
> >> how this works to a user, we have failed.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What worries me is that at present, you can set the navigation style
> with
> >> rootIcon.setNavigationStyle(style), but to our users, the functionality
> in
> >> what appears to be the same interface changes between different LOs.
> This
> >> troubles me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In linear pieces, I agree: it should do linear next / prev; in menu
> >> without page controls, it works fine too: there are no buttons! When
> you use
> >> the menu with page controls setting, currently it does the back /next
> (as
> >> opposed to prev / next).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The implications are very much with the connectors I think, as it would
> be
> >> possible for people to make some really terrible decisions if they start
> >> changing the functionality based on the type of page you are on. That
> MUST
> >> NOT happen.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay
> Cross
> >>
> >> Sent: 26 July 2012 08:55
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think this is really tricky to get right. I can see the argument for
> >> historical forward and back working really well on projects with
> connector
> >> pages but think it could get confusing if the behaviour of the forward
> >> button changes depending on what you do.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For example, a LO is set up as Menu with controls. The user reads the
> >> first few of pages in a LO using the forward button to navigate to the
> next
> >> numerical page. They then decide to use the menu the skip ahead several
> >> pages. They realise they have skipped some important information so
> use the
> >> back button to return to the page they were previously on. Now they
> try to
> >> continue navigating through the LO as they had previously by clicking
> the
> >> forward button – but using the historical forward button this will skip
> them
> >> past several pages again. The only way for them to get to the pages
> they
> >> missed is to use the menu again. I think this could be confusing,
> >> especially as there’s no indication on the menu what pages you had
> visited.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Not sure what the answer is but I don’t know if historical forwards is
> >> necessarily what people would expect to happen, especially when mixed up
> >> with linear in certain circumstances.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >> Sent: 25 July 2012 19:45
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If you go down the two separate types of navigation approach then you
> >> would not necessarily implement the mix of historic and linear next
> button.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next,
> else
> >> go forward?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What I am suggesting is that if you have a historic back button then it
> >> makes sense to offer a historic next button so that the navigation
> remains
> >> within a single paradigm. The idea of providing a linear element to the
> next
> >> button, only when the user has no legitimate historic next value, is
> really
> >> to accommodate the difference between Xerte and a web page. Web pages
> have
> >> links in them to enable you to exit them. Standard Xerte pages do not.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If people are going to use the Connector pages they will need the
> historic
> >> back button. The type of project an author will want to be selecting
> will be
> >> one that does NOT offer a menu of all the pages. The author is unlikely
> to
> >> want to provide the end user with a means of bypassing the routes
> through
> >> the learning object that the author creates by using the Connector
> pages.
> >> Giving them access to a menu of all the pages will do just that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I’m finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion
> >> provides a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me
> >> something is wrong:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Then it is my description that is at fault. The simplest way to describe
> >> the navigation I am proposing is that it works just like Internet
> Explorer
> >> or Opera, with the additional feature, if deemed appropriate, that in
> >> situations where IE or Opera would show the next button disabled, then
> in
> >> Xerte the next button could remain enabled by offering a link to the
> next
> >> page in the project's linear sequence.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The hard part is describing the specific details and rules that apply
> that
> >> enable the creation of such a navigation system. In use it is intuitive
> - it
> >> is just the way a web browser works.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The current combination we have in Xerte of a historic back button and a
> >> purely linear next button is what is likely to throw people.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We need the author to be able to implement as a minimum, the current
> >> historic back button navigation without also implementing a project wide
> >> menu. Better would be to also have a historic next button, so that the
> >> historic navigation would be consistent.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 25 July 2012 16:38, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think the problem is as you say, the mix between a historical back
> >> button and a linear next button. The two (strong) mental models people
> will
> >> bring are the digital book (linear, prev and fwd); or the browser (back
> in
> >> history, forward in history); we are kinda mixing them up. In a browser
> you
> >> navigate with links; here we are navigating with the fwd button.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What I’ve done is put the navigation back to the old way for linear
> >> projects; either of the menu options give the back (in history)
> >> functionality. Next always goes to the next page.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What you are suggesting is that if history.length = 0, then go next,
> else
> >> go forward? I think we are screwing with people’s mental models here?
> I’m
> >> finding it hard to get straight in my head (whether your suggestion
> provides
> >> a simple, predictable navigation system), and that tells me something is
> >> wrong: this shouldn’t need explaining, we will be doing something wrong
> if
> >> anyone ever asks a question about the navigation system.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hmm.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Kemp
> >> Johnathan
> >>
> >> Sent: 25 July 2012 16:29
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm sorry that it has taken me a while to respond to this thread, I have
> >> been otherwise engaged for most of yesterday and today and before I
> could
> >> respond adequately I needed to check a few things.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The standard Xerte project has to date been treated as if you are
> reading
> >> a book. No history just turn to the previous or next page relative to
> the
> >> one you are currently viewing. When you use the TOC you are just
> opening the
> >> book at a new page. Back and Next are then relative to that new page.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The Connector pages introduced a different paradigm for the project.
> This
> >> paradigm required a historical back button. As an example consider a
> >> multiple choice connector page. Each of the answer options can link to a
> >> sequence of none connector pages, i.e. If the connector page is P1 then
> >>
> >> option 1 may go to P2 which leads to P3 to P4 and P5 is a redirector
> page
> >> to P10
> >>
> >> option 2 may go to P6 which leads to P7 to P8 and P9 is a redirector
> page
> >> to P10
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The historical back is needed to ensure that if you traverse backward
> from
> >> P8 to P7 to P6 that the next backward action does not take you to P5
> but to
> >> P1.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This inevitably clashes with the book paradigm when you use the TOC
> which
> >> is what Julian found. It will inevitably feel a little strange to Xerte
> >> users who are used to the book paradigm. However it does mirror the way
> a
> >> back button works in a web browser, so in a sense it will be what will
> be
> >> expected by anyone opening a Xerte project for the first time.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> However browser users will be confused by the Xerte next button, as
> >> browsers that offer a next button base their next on the browser
> history.
> >> Such browsers (IE, Opera) appear to operate by building a history and
> >> maintaining a pointer as the history is navigated. Whenever a link is
> >> followed (rather than a back or next button) the "next" half of the
> history
> >> is deleted, so that on page exit the current page is added as the most
> >> recent page in the history.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If there are to be on offer in Xerte a choice between the original
> >> navigation or historic navigation then the historic navigation would be
> >> improved if it also was reflected in the operation of the next button.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have performed some tests in opera to figure out what is going on and
> >> have attached a pdf file to explain everything. The pdf file opens with
> a
> >> worked example of how a historic navigation that accommodated a back
> and
> >> next button would operate. The last page identifies the rules that
> would be
> >> required in Xerte to implement such a navigation in the xerte
> navigation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope this helps. The example can take a little effort to get your head
> >> around, but the actions that need to happen with respect to each button
> are,
> >> I think pretty straight forward to implement for someone who knows
> there way
> >> around the appropriate Xerte flash file.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Johnathan.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 25 July 2012 10:41, Julian Tenney <Julian.Tenney at nottingham.ac.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I’ve done that, need to play around with it and see if it feels better.
> >> Opinions welcome.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
> Tenney
> >>
> >> Sent: 25 July 2012 09:29
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> OK. I think I’m going to put the default back to the way it was, and
> add a
> >> method to the interface calss to allow the developer to chose: that way
> it
> >> can be linear for linear navigation, and use the history if navigation
> is
> >> menu.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Does this sound sensible?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Fay
> Cross
> >>
> >> Sent: 25 July 2012 08:27
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I only realised it did the back to previous page viewed rather than
> >> numerical back when doing the testing a couple of weeks ago so I did
> find it
> >> a bit odd. I think it’s because I thought of the LO pages to be like
> pages
> >> in a book rather than web pages so history back was unexpected.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So at the moment does a linear layout have numerical forward and back
> and
> >> menu layout have history back and numerical forward? If the linear one
> has
> >> history back I do think this could confuse users when they’ve changed
> page
> >> using table of contents.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
> Tenney
> >>
> >> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:35
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ah, but then back would have taken me just one page back, and I could go
> >> one page forward again…
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron
> Mitchell
> >>
> >> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:29
> >>
> >> To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But you weren't able to do that previously either?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
> Tenney
> >>
> >> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:16
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Has it felt right to you whilst testing? Mostly it does feel OK, but the
> >> time it gribble me out is when I use the TOC to jump to a page, hit
> back (go
> >> back to page one) and then can’t easily (without re-opening the TOC) get
> >> back to the page I was just on (cos there’s no ‘forward’). It somehow
> >> doesn’t feel quite right
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Ron
> Mitchell
> >>
> >> Sent: 24 July 2012 11:08
> >>
> >> To: 'For Xerte technical developers'
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Re: Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think it's fine the way it is now with back being history back and
> next
> >> being next numeric page but if you've found inconsistencies with the
> history
> >> back perhaps it would be better to revert back to what it's always
> been. Not
> >> sure about author control wouldn't that lead to confusion where
> sometimes
> >> it's history and sometimes it's linear?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> >> [mailto:xerte-dev-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Julian
> Tenney
> >>
> >> Sent: 24 July 2012 10:49
> >>
> >> To: For Xerte technical developers
> >>
> >> Subject: [Xerte-dev] Back / Next Functionlaity
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What do you think: we made the back button in the interface go back in
> >> history, rather than back in pages: this seems to work well in some
> >> situations, but whilst testing, I have hit back several times and not
> gone
> >> where I expected to, and can’t go forward: do you think we should have
> it so
> >> that the developer can chose which way it works?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, for a linear interface, it works as it did before, going back and
> >> forth on page numbers; if it’s a menu driven piece, it goes back in
> history?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I think the problem I found in terms of inconsistencies is that forward
> >> always takes you next, rather than forward in history when back goes
> back in
> >> history rather than pages (read that again carefully).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Next can’t be forward, as it’s the main way of getting to the next,
> >> unvisited page.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> This should do what the user expects because it grates when you don’t go
> >> where you wanted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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> >> http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/xerte-dev
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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