<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Hello Frank,<br></div><div><br></div>I'd be glad to join current efforts and share concepts and data for Dasysyprhus, especially that the mess we have in the genus does not provide a safe bed for even simple faunistic works for any of us. But not sure in the scope of specific Dasysyrphus problems I can add anything super smart. The main reason is that despite years of tries, none was able to resolve some basic problems of this genus in Palearctic. Intraspecific variability and borders of some common known/named species has to be clarified first (if possible) and some basic doubts
resolved (e.g. what exactly D. lenensis, D. postclaviger, D. hilaris and D.
venustus is) to let us all understand and _see_ species properly. Then the complete revision of the material (incl. types) and names stabilization makes any sense. For sure new tools are now available (genetics, wings morphometry) to test hypothesis.<br><br>You know that similar problems are still open in Eupeodes, Pipiza, Melanostoma, Xanthogramma, some Cheilosia etc. ;)<br></div><div><br>To clarify, I am personally not a big fan of creating new names if that is not
really needed, especially in situation the complex ("venustus" we
discuss in this case) has characters between "species" overlapping, the
difference in genitalia not obvious/visible, and some darker specimens
low in number exists (especially from mountain and northern areas) that does not help in
clarification/stabilization of the whole "group". I think we should keep on trying (that is just the beauty of science) and discuss as much as possible rather than sit in silence. +1 for the proposed approach. I am personally afraid Dasysyrphus cannot be resolved "at once" (as one revision).<br><br></div></div>Robert<br><br></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-01-11 9:16 GMT+01:00 Frank Dziock <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dziock@htw-dresden.de" target="_blank">dziock@htw-dresden.de</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div><br>
Hi Steven and others,<br>
<br>
very nice to see that Dasysyrphus is still en vogue ;-)<br>
<br>
Thinking from the hoverfly community perspective, it would be very
good, if the people working on Dasysyrphus (Steven, Robert,
Dieter, Jeff and surely many others) could make a joint effort. <br>
<br>
Please do not decribe single "new" Dasysyrphus species. Please try
to achieve a thorough revision of at least the Western Palaearctic
area (Holarctic would be better, though ;-)). <br>
<br>
Otherwise I fear we would have to deal with a mess of old names,
new names, synonyms etc. for many years. We already had that in
some other genera, and I think it would be time to join forces and
prevent such things.<br>
<br>
All the best and good chance,<br>
<br>
Frank<br>
<br>
P.S.: Ximo, the Chrysotoxum paper is in the attachment<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 10.01.2016 um 10:43 schrieb Steven Falk:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Its definitely one
taxa Robert, variation in stigma colour etc is just down to
lighting conditions and mode of photography. All material
has yellow bars reaching the side margin. But I've been
recording 'venusta' for years (I've been recording syrphids
since 1975) and am prettyu good at spotting when something
is not right - as is the case here. I'll check the ventral
side when I get a moment,</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Steven</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Steven Falk</font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Entomologist-Artist-Photographer</font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk" target="_blank">www.stevenfalk.co.uk</a></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">mobile: 0781 555
7263</font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Help Our Bees: <a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees" target="_blank">http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees</a></font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Flickr Image library
at:</font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/</a></font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr>
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>
[<a href="mailto:syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">mailto:syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Robert Zóralski<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 January 2016 21:39<br>
<b>To:</b> Hoverfly discussion list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Syrphidae] Re: PDF request - Sommaggio 2001<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>To supplement previous email. It is not obvious from
pictures if the first dark male has bands on tergites reaching
sides or not. In case it is small specimen and sides not
reaching - good candidate for D. nigritarsis. I would not be
surprise if you have this species in northern Scotland.<br>
<br>
</div>
Robert<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2016-01-09 22:25 GMT+01:00 Robert
Żóralski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robert@insects.pl" target="_blank">robert@insects.pl</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi Steven,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Depending on what you believe D. venustus is...
;)<br>
<br>
Nothing sure base on pictures, but I do not think
you show one species under the link. I mean the last
pictures of the female with yellowish pterostigma,
yellow hind tibiae and fuzzy dusting on frons is
something different the first the pair (dark males
and female presented at the beginning of the
gallery).<br>
<br>
</div>
Do you have any picture of ventral side of those
specimens? Is that narrow equally broad band (in
females only) or rather triangle-like dark spots in
both sexes?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Cheers<span><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>
<span><font color="#888888">Robert<br>
</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>2016-01-08 18:19 GMT+01:00
Steven Falk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steven@sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:steven@sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk" target="_blank">steven@sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk</a>></span>:<br>
</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Afraid
not Ximo, but whilst we are talking
Syrphini, I'm pretty sure I've got a new
(at least to Britain) <em>Dasysyrphus </em>that
is very close to <em>venustus</em>
(alongside which it was flying). It
averages darker, smaller, narrow bands on
the tergites, male frons much darker,
female frons with much smaller dust spots.
It was from Scottsih native pine wood
areas in late May-early June 2013, when
spring was delayed by 4-5 weeks (and<em>
Salix</em> was still in blossom!).
Martin Speight has already provided some
info, but interested to hear what others
think. See this link for images: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/" target="_blank">https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/</a></font></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span><font face="Arial" size="2">All the
best,</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span><font face="Arial" size="2">Steven</font></span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Steven
Falk</font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Entomologist-Artist-Photographer</font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk" target="_blank">www.stevenfalk.co.uk</a></font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">mobile:
0781 555 7263</font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Help
Our Bees: <a href="http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees" target="_blank">http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees</a></font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2">Flickr
Image library at:</font></div>
<div align="left"><font face="Arial" size="2"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/</a></font></div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div align="left"> </div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">syrphidae-bounces@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>ximo mengual sanchis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 January 2016 16:20<br>
<b>To:</b> Hoverfly discussion list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Syrphidae] PDF request -
Sommaggio 2001<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
</div>
Does someone has a pdf of the
following paper?<br>
<br>
Sommaggio, D. 2001. The species of
the genus Chrysotoxum Meigen, 1822
(Diptera, Syrphidae) described by
Giglio Tos. -Bollettino Museo
Regionale di Scienze Naturali,
Torino, 18: 115-127.<br>
<br>
</div>
I have seen two publication years in
the literature: 2000 and 2001.<br>
<br>
</div>
Many thanks!<br>
<br>
</div>
Ximo<br>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>********************************************************
<br>
<font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2">Dr. Ximo
Mengual<br>
Head of the Diptera
Section<br>
</font><font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" face="Default
Sans
Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><font color="#000000">Stiftung
Zoologisches
Forschungsmuseum
Alexander Koenig <br>
Leibniz<font size="2"><font face="Default
Sans
Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">-</font></font>Institut
für Biodiversität
der Tiere</font></font><font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><br>
Adenauerallee 160 <br>
D-53113 Bonn, Germany<br>
Phone: 0049 (0)228
9122 292<br>
</font><a href="https://www.zfmk.de/en/zfmk/ximo-mengual" target="_blank">ZFMK web</a><a href="http://entomology.si.edu/StaffPages/MengualJ.html" target="_blank"><font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(51,51,153)" size="2"><br>
</font></a></div>
<div><font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><a style="COLOR:rgb(51,102,255)" href="https://www.bolgermany.de/" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.bolgermany.de/" target="_blank">https://www.bolgermany.de/</a></font>
| <font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(51,102,255)" size="2"><a style="COLOR:rgb(51,102,255)" href="http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/" target="_blank">http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/</a></font><br>
<font style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"> <br>
</font><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.
Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
permitted by UK legislation.
</pre>
<pre>This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.
Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
permitted by UK legislation.
</pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________<br>
Syrphidae mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Syrphidae@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">Syrphidae@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/syrphidae" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/syrphidae</a><br>
<br>
</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<pre>This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.
Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
permitted by UK legislation.
</pre>
<pre>
This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.
Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
permitted by UK legislation.
</pre>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Syrphidae mailing list
<a href="mailto:Syrphidae@lists.nottingham.ac.uk" target="_blank">Syrphidae@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a>
<a href="http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/syrphidae" target="_blank">http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/syrphidae</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><pre cols="72">--
Prof. Dr. Frank Dziock
Tierökologie / Angewandter Umweltschutz
Animal Ecology / Environmental Conservation
Studiendekan Umweltmonitoring
HTW Dresden - University of Applied Sciences
Faculty of Agriculture / Environment / Chemistry (LUC)
Hochschule für Technik und Wirtschaft
HTW Dresden
Fakultät Landbau / Umwelt / Chemie (LUC)
Pillnitzer Platz 2
01326 Dresden
Tel. <a href="tel:%2B%2B49%20%280%29%20351%20-%20462%203830" value="+493514623830" target="_blank">++49 (0) 351 - 462 3830</a>
<a href="http://www.htw-dresden.de/luc.html" target="_blank">www.htw-dresden.de/luc.html</a>
"God in his wisdom made the fly, and then forgot to tell us why" - Odgen Nash</pre><span class="">
<pre>
This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee
and may contain confidential information. If you have received this
message in error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.
Please do not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this
message or in any attachment. Any views or opinions expressed by the
author of this email do not necessarily reflect the views of the
University of Nottingham.
This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
attachment may still contain software viruses which could damage your
computer system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email
communications with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as
permitted by UK legislation.
</pre></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Syrphidae mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Syrphidae@lists.nottingham.ac.uk">Syrphidae@lists.nottingham.ac.uk</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/syrphidae" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nottingham.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/syrphidae</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>