[Syrphidae] Re: PDF request - Sommaggio 2001

Tue Jan 12 00:26:23 GMT 2016

Locke (2013), who did an enormous amount of sequencing combined with
morphology, shows that even with a lot of new tools, the genus Dasysyrphus
can not be completely solved. And she focused on the New World species....
But if somebody wants to attack this genus again, in a joint effort, I am
willing to give material (Nearctic and East Palaearctic, mainly South
Korea), but I don't want to be part of the project (too many other things
to solve)...
Cheers
Martin

On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 1:54 PM, Robert Żóralski <robert at insects.pl> wrote:

> Hello Frank,
>
> I'd be glad to join current efforts and share concepts and data for
> Dasysyprhus, especially that the mess we have in the genus does not provide
> a safe bed for even simple faunistic works for any of us. But not sure in
> the scope of specific Dasysyrphus problems I can add anything super smart.
> The main reason is that despite years of tries, none was able to resolve
> some basic problems of this genus in Palearctic. Intraspecific variability
> and borders of some common known/named species has to be clarified first
> (if possible) and some basic doubts resolved (e.g. what exactly D.
> lenensis, D. postclaviger, D. hilaris and D. venustus is) to let us all
> understand and _see_ species properly. Then the complete revision of the
> material (incl. types) and names stabilization makes any sense. For sure
> new tools are now available (genetics, wings morphometry) to test
> hypothesis.
>
> You know that similar problems are still open in Eupeodes, Pipiza,
> Melanostoma, Xanthogramma, some Cheilosia etc. ;)
>
> To clarify, I am personally not a big fan of creating new names if that is
> not really needed, especially in situation the complex ("venustus" we
> discuss in this case) has characters between "species" overlapping, the
> difference in genitalia not obvious/visible, and some darker specimens low
> in number exists (especially from mountain and northern areas) that does
> not help in clarification/stabilization of the whole "group". I think we
> should keep on trying (that is just the beauty of science) and discuss as
> much as possible rather than sit in silence. +1 for the proposed approach.
> I am personally afraid Dasysyrphus cannot be resolved "at once" (as one
> revision).
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> 2016-01-11 9:16 GMT+01:00 Frank Dziock <dziock at htw-dresden.de>:
>
>>
>> Hi Steven and others,
>>
>> very nice to see that Dasysyrphus is still en vogue ;-)
>>
>> Thinking from the hoverfly community perspective, it would be very good,
>> if the people working on Dasysyrphus (Steven, Robert, Dieter, Jeff and
>> surely many others) could make a joint effort.
>>
>> Please do not decribe single "new" Dasysyrphus species. Please try to
>> achieve a thorough revision of at least the Western Palaearctic area
>> (Holarctic would be better, though ;-)).
>>
>> Otherwise I fear we would have to deal with a mess of old names, new
>> names, synonyms etc. for many years. We already had that in some other
>> genera, and I think it would be time to join forces and prevent such things.
>>
>> All the best and good chance,
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> P.S.: Ximo, the Chrysotoxum paper is in the attachment
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 10.01.2016 um 10:43 schrieb Steven Falk:
>>
>> Its definitely one taxa Robert, variation in stigma colour etc is just
>> down to lighting conditions and mode of photography. All material has
>> yellow bars reaching the side margin. But I've been recording 'venusta' for
>> years (I've been recording syrphids since 1975) and am prettyu good at
>> spotting when something is not right - as is the case here. I'll check the
>> ventral side when I get a moment,
>>
>> Steven
>>
>> Steven Falk
>> Entomologist-Artist-Photographer
>> <http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/>www.stevenfalk.co.uk
>> mobile: 0781 555 7263
>>
>> Help Our Bees: <http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees>
>> http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees
>>
>> Flickr Image library at:
>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
>> mailto:syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
>> <syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] *On Behalf Of *Robert
>> Zóralski
>> *Sent:* 09 January 2016 21:39
>> *To:* Hoverfly discussion list
>> *Subject:* [Syrphidae] Re: PDF request - Sommaggio 2001
>>
>> To supplement previous email. It is not obvious from pictures if the
>> first dark male has bands on tergites reaching sides or not. In case it is
>> small specimen and sides not reaching - good candidate for D. nigritarsis.
>> I would not be surprise if you have this species in northern Scotland.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> 2016-01-09 22:25 GMT+01:00 Robert Żóralski <robert at insects.pl>:
>>
>>> Hi Steven,
>>>
>>> Depending on what you believe D. venustus is... ;)
>>>
>>> Nothing sure base on pictures, but I do not think you show one species
>>> under the link. I mean the last pictures of the female with yellowish
>>> pterostigma, yellow hind tibiae and fuzzy dusting on frons is something
>>> different the first the pair (dark males and female presented at the
>>> beginning of the gallery).
>>>
>>> Do you have any picture of ventral side of those specimens? Is that
>>> narrow equally broad band (in females only) or rather triangle-like dark
>>> spots in both sexes?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> 2016-01-08 18:19 GMT+01:00 Steven Falk < <steven at sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk>
>>> steven at sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk>:
>>>
>>>> Afraid not Ximo, but whilst we are talking Syrphini, I'm pretty sure
>>>> I've got a new (at least to Britain) *Dasysyrphus *that is very close
>>>> to *venustus* (alongside which it was flying). It averages darker,
>>>> smaller, narrow bands on the tergites, male frons much darker, female frons
>>>> with much smaller dust spots. It was from Scottsih native pine wood areas
>>>> in late May-early June 2013, when spring was delayed by 4-5 weeks (and*
>>>> Salix* was still in blossom!). Martin Speight has already provided
>>>> some info, but interested to hear what others think. See this link for
>>>> images:
>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/>
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Steven Falk
>>>> Entomologist-Artist-Photographer
>>>> <http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/>www.stevenfalk.co.uk
>>>> mobile: 0781 555 7263
>>>>
>>>> Help Our Bees: http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees
>>>>
>>>> Flickr Image library at:
>>>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/>
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
>>>> syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *ximo mengual
>>>> sanchis
>>>> *Sent:* 08 January 2016 16:20
>>>> *To:* Hoverfly discussion list
>>>> *Subject:* [Syrphidae] PDF request - Sommaggio 2001
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> Does someone has a pdf of the following paper?
>>>>
>>>> Sommaggio, D. 2001. The species of the genus Chrysotoxum Meigen, 1822
>>>> (Diptera, Syrphidae) described by Giglio Tos. -Bollettino Museo Regionale
>>>> di Scienze Naturali, Torino, 18: 115-127.
>>>>
>>>> I have seen two publication years in the literature: 2000 and 2001.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Ximo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ********************************************************
>>>> Dr. Ximo Mengual
>>>> Head of the Diptera Section
>>>> Stiftung Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig
>>>> Leibniz-Institut für Biodiversität der Tiere
>>>> Adenauerallee 160
>>>> D-53113  Bonn, Germany
>>>> Phone: 0049 (0)228 9122 292
>>>> ZFMK web <https://www.zfmk.de/en/zfmk/ximo-mengual>
>>>> <http://entomology.si.edu/StaffPages/MengualJ.html>
>>>> <https://www.bolgermany.de/>https://www.bolgermany.de/ |
>>>> <http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/>http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Prof. Dr. Frank Dziock
>>   Tierökologie / Angewandter Umweltschutz
>>   Animal Ecology / Environmental Conservation
>>   Studiendekan Umweltmonitoring
>>
>> HTW Dresden - University of Applied Sciences
>>   Faculty of Agriculture / Environment / Chemistry (LUC)
>>
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>> HTW Dresden
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>>
>> Tel. ++49 (0) 351 - 462 3830
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>>
>> "God in his wisdom made the fly, and then forgot to tell us why" - Odgen Nash
>>
>>
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>
>
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