[Syrphidae] Re: PDF request - Sommaggio 2001

Robert Żóralski robert at insects.pl
Mon Jan 11 21:54:25 GMT 2016


Hello Frank,

I'd be glad to join current efforts and share concepts and data for
Dasysyprhus, especially that the mess we have in the genus does not provide
a safe bed for even simple faunistic works for any of us. But not sure in
the scope of specific Dasysyrphus problems I can add anything super smart.
The main reason is that despite years of tries, none was able to resolve
some basic problems of this genus in Palearctic. Intraspecific variability
and borders of some common known/named species has to be clarified first
(if possible) and some basic doubts resolved (e.g. what exactly D.
lenensis, D. postclaviger, D. hilaris and D. venustus is) to let us all
understand and _see_ species properly. Then the complete revision of the
material (incl. types) and names stabilization makes any sense. For sure
new tools are now available (genetics, wings morphometry) to test
hypothesis.

You know that similar problems are still open in Eupeodes, Pipiza,
Melanostoma, Xanthogramma, some Cheilosia etc. ;)

To clarify, I am personally not a big fan of creating new names if that is
not really needed, especially in situation the complex ("venustus" we
discuss in this case) has characters between "species" overlapping, the
difference in genitalia not obvious/visible, and some darker specimens low
in number exists (especially from mountain and northern areas) that does
not help in clarification/stabilization of the whole "group". I think we
should keep on trying (that is just the beauty of science) and discuss as
much as possible rather than sit in silence. +1 for the proposed approach.
I am personally afraid Dasysyrphus cannot be resolved "at once" (as one
revision).

Robert



2016-01-11 9:16 GMT+01:00 Frank Dziock <dziock at htw-dresden.de>:

>
> Hi Steven and others,
>
> very nice to see that Dasysyrphus is still en vogue ;-)
>
> Thinking from the hoverfly community perspective, it would be very good,
> if the people working on Dasysyrphus (Steven, Robert, Dieter, Jeff and
> surely many others) could make a joint effort.
>
> Please do not decribe single "new" Dasysyrphus species. Please try to
> achieve a thorough revision of at least the Western Palaearctic area
> (Holarctic would be better, though ;-)).
>
> Otherwise I fear we would have to deal with a mess of old names, new
> names, synonyms etc. for many years. We already had that in some other
> genera, and I think it would be time to join forces and prevent such things.
>
> All the best and good chance,
>
> Frank
>
> P.S.: Ximo, the Chrysotoxum paper is in the attachment
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 10.01.2016 um 10:43 schrieb Steven Falk:
>
> Its definitely one taxa Robert, variation in stigma colour etc is just
> down to lighting conditions and mode of photography. All material has
> yellow bars reaching the side margin. But I've been recording 'venusta' for
> years (I've been recording syrphids since 1975) and am prettyu good at
> spotting when something is not right - as is the case here. I'll check the
> ventral side when I get a moment,
>
> Steven
>
> Steven Falk
> Entomologist-Artist-Photographer
> <http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/>www.stevenfalk.co.uk
> mobile: 0781 555 7263
>
> Help Our Bees: <http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees>
> http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees
>
> Flickr Image library at:
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [
> mailto:syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk
> <syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk>] *On Behalf Of *Robert Zóralski
> *Sent:* 09 January 2016 21:39
> *To:* Hoverfly discussion list
> *Subject:* [Syrphidae] Re: PDF request - Sommaggio 2001
>
> To supplement previous email. It is not obvious from pictures if the first
> dark male has bands on tergites reaching sides or not. In case it is small
> specimen and sides not reaching - good candidate for D. nigritarsis. I
> would not be surprise if you have this species in northern Scotland.
>
> Robert
>
> 2016-01-09 22:25 GMT+01:00 Robert Żóralski <robert at insects.pl>:
>
>> Hi Steven,
>>
>> Depending on what you believe D. venustus is... ;)
>>
>> Nothing sure base on pictures, but I do not think you show one species
>> under the link. I mean the last pictures of the female with yellowish
>> pterostigma, yellow hind tibiae and fuzzy dusting on frons is something
>> different the first the pair (dark males and female presented at the
>> beginning of the gallery).
>>
>> Do you have any picture of ventral side of those specimens? Is that
>> narrow equally broad band (in females only) or rather triangle-like dark
>> spots in both sexes?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Robert
>>
>> 2016-01-08 18:19 GMT+01:00 Steven Falk < <steven at sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk>
>> steven at sfalk.wanadoo.co.uk>:
>>
>>> Afraid not Ximo, but whilst we are talking Syrphini, I'm pretty sure
>>> I've got a new (at least to Britain) *Dasysyrphus *that is very close
>>> to *venustus* (alongside which it was flying). It averages darker,
>>> smaller, narrow bands on the tergites, male frons much darker, female frons
>>> with much smaller dust spots. It was from Scottsih native pine wood areas
>>> in late May-early June 2013, when spring was delayed by 4-5 weeks (and*
>>> Salix* was still in blossom!). Martin Speight has already provided some
>>> info, but interested to hear what others think. See this link for images:
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/sets/72157634414191644/
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Steven
>>>
>>>
>>> Steven Falk
>>> Entomologist-Artist-Photographer
>>> <http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/>www.stevenfalk.co.uk
>>> mobile: 0781 555 7263
>>>
>>> Help Our Bees: http://www.stevenfalk.co.uk/help-our-bees
>>>
>>> Flickr Image library at:
>>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/63075200@N07/collections/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk [mailto:
>>> syrphidae-bounces at lists.nottingham.ac.uk] *On Behalf Of *ximo mengual
>>> sanchis
>>> *Sent:* 08 January 2016 16:20
>>> *To:* Hoverfly discussion list
>>> *Subject:* [Syrphidae] PDF request - Sommaggio 2001
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Does someone has a pdf of the following paper?
>>>
>>> Sommaggio, D. 2001. The species of the genus Chrysotoxum Meigen, 1822
>>> (Diptera, Syrphidae) described by Giglio Tos. -Bollettino Museo Regionale
>>> di Scienze Naturali, Torino, 18: 115-127.
>>>
>>> I have seen two publication years in the literature: 2000 and 2001.
>>>
>>> Many thanks!
>>>
>>> Ximo
>>>
>>>
>>> ********************************************************
>>> Dr. Ximo Mengual
>>> Head of the Diptera Section
>>> Stiftung Zoologisches Forschungsmuseum Alexander Koenig
>>> Leibniz-Institut für Biodiversität der Tiere
>>> Adenauerallee 160
>>> D-53113  Bonn, Germany
>>> Phone: 0049 (0)228 9122 292
>>> ZFMK web <https://www.zfmk.de/en/zfmk/ximo-mengual>
>>> <http://entomology.si.edu/StaffPages/MengualJ.html>
>>> <https://www.bolgermany.de/>https://www.bolgermany.de/ |
>>> <http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/>http://syrphidae.lifedesks.org/
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
> --
>
> Prof. Dr. Frank Dziock
>   Tierökologie / Angewandter Umweltschutz
>   Animal Ecology / Environmental Conservation
>   Studiendekan Umweltmonitoring
>
> HTW Dresden - University of Applied Sciences
>   Faculty of Agriculture / Environment / Chemistry (LUC)
>
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>
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>
> "God in his wisdom made the fly, and then forgot to tell us why" - Odgen Nash
>
>
>
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