[Maths-Education] Fallout

Jjelpke@aol.com Jjelpke@aol.com
Thu, 14 Dec 2000 07:34:59 EST


Before I start I should say that I have a commercial interest in selling
BOTH these products. My main interest is in GSP, which is why we sell it
with a money-back guarantee. (We get very few returns!) For free demos et=
c.
please email qed@talk21.com

Dave has summarised some issues as far as functionality is concerned.

However other issues are:
	1. Cost: I think I am right in saying that GSP is now cheaper, esp. as
Cabri have stopped selling 15-user packs. We offer a price-match guarante=
e.

	2. Support materials.
The ATM has recently published EXCELLENT support materials for both Cabri
AND GSP. However there is far more GSP support material in English (or
rather American) than exists for Cabri. There is also lots of GSP ancilla=
ry
software on e.g. the following areas: (Price *=A324 or **=A339 each.)
	*Exploring Conic Sections with GSP
	**Exploring Geometry with GSP
	*Exploring Trigonometry with GSP
	*Geometry through the Circle with GSP
	**Geometry Activities with GSP for Middle School Students
	*Perspective Drawing with GSP
	*Pythagoras Plugged: Proofs and Problems with GSP
	*Rethinking Proof with GSP
	**Shapemakers: Developing Geometric Reasoning with GSP

	3. Training
We are developing plans for training courses which will probably include =
a
FREE copy of the software for all participants.

	4. Student Packs/Teacher use
GSP has a fully-functional Student Pack available for just =A339. Also, t=
he
terms of the licence vary, so that GSP multi-packs entitle teachers to lo=
ad
the software on their machines at home FOR FREE.

I hope some of this is useful.

I would be really interested to find a "serious" research project which
would compare the learning effectiveness of this software. (I have seen o=
ne
conducted several years ago which came down in favour of GSP - and GSP ha=
s
subsequently improved its software to take account of weaknesses identifi=
ed
there.)

JOHN BIBBY

NB: DO NOT FORGET THAT THERE ARE ALSO SOME FREE PACKAGES E.G. CINDERELLA.=
 i
DO NOT KNOW THEM PERSONALLY, BUT I HEAR THEY ARE VERY GOOD.


>      -----Original Message-----
>      From: maths-education-admin@nottingham.ac.uk
>      [mailto:maths-education-admin@nottingham.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
>      Dave Wilson
>      Sent: 28 November 2000 10:19
>      To: maths-education@nottingham.ac.uk
>      Subject: Re: [Maths-Education] dynamic geomertry software
>      Peter Gates wrote:
>      >
>      >Colleagues - I'm after advice.
>      >
>      >I am looking to purchase a Dynamic geometry package for use
>      with out PGCE
>      >ITE students. This is not my immediate area of expertise so i hav=
e a
>      >question...
>      >
>      >
>      >Should I buy a licence for Cabri or for Geometer's
>      sketchpad - or for what?
>      >
>      >Which is preferable, which is 'bette'r whatever that means?
>      >
>      How should i chose?
>
>
>      Before I start, I suppose that I ought to say what I usually say -
>      broadly they both do the same thing and have much the same
>      functionality, so you buy the one whose user interface you prefer.
>
>      However;
>
>      You'll find considerable discussion about the UI's on the dynamic
>      geometry discussion list (see
>      http://forum.swarthmore.edu  follow the Discussion Groups link) GS=
P
>      insists you select the objects needed as a basis for a constructio=
n
>      and then the tool (angle bisector, say), whereas Cabri reverses th=
is
>      - GSP, apparently follows the usual methods in wordprocessors and
>      drawing packages. I think that the argument that this is better
>      because more standard is misleading. Cabri seems to me to echo how
>      people think geometry.
>
>      Cabri gives feedback to the user around the pointer (as the mouse
>      passes near a point a tag appears saying 'this point') - GSP
>      provides
>      similar feedback in an area at the bottom of the window, precisely
>      the wrong place it seems to me.
>
>      GSP provides a 'snap to grid' menu command which snaps points to
>      lattice points on a grid - Cabri allows you to construct
>      points lying
>      on lattice points. Cabri is a defined constraint - with GSP if you
>      change the grid size by dragging the snapped points do not move wi=
th
>      the grid, and you then have to re-snap.  This is an example of an
>      underlying difference which I want to express by saying that
>      Cabri is
>      more 'geometrical' than GSP.
>
>      I would need to look at GSP to check this out, but Cabri's
>      locus tool
>      is richer - an extra basic tool is a conic defined by 5 points
>      (though I guess we don't need this much in secondary - but it is
>      wonderfully useful when looking at parabolas and linking to
>      coordinate graphing).
>      Are Cabri's set of axes more user definable than GSP - they
>      can be at
>      any angle, different unit spacing?
>
>      Both have added a very useful functionality - you can use Java to
>      view figures constructed in Cabri/GSP within a web browser - CAbri
>      has implemented this in a far more efficient manner, I think.
>
>      What else?
>
>      Oh, yeah macros (Cabri) and scripts (GSP). I hate and loathe GSP's
>      scripts. Both actually offer much the same functionality and power=
,
>      but ..
>
>      (preamble - these are ways of adding frequently used, demanded
>      constructions or ones which a teacher wishes to provide for their
>      students - eg I can provide a group with a 'circumcircle' tool
>      operating on 3 points, or a tool for the radical axis of a pair of
>      circles, or whatever)
>
>      Cabri user defined macros appear along with the built-in
>      tools in the
>      button bar and are used in exactly the same manner GSP's are
>      scripts,
>      distinct from the rest of the tools and need to be 'RUN'
>      Cabri macros when invoked only produce in the figure the defined
>      output object/s (a circle around points - GSP scripts when invoked
>      quickly spin through the full construction
>      (mid-points/perpendiculars/intersecting point/circle then hide the
>      construction details if the user has selectd that) but the
>      underlying
>      details are present in the figure, albeit 'hidden' and can
>      be viewed,
>      the producer of the GSP sketch has no choice over this, The Cabri
>      producer has a choice. This means that Cabri can be used to produc=
e
>      very clean figures with almost no 'hidden' construction details if
>      that is what you want - GSP sketches quickly become a scab of hidd=
en
>      opbjects which loses the power of revealing the structure of a
>      construction. GSp loses sense of synthesis to the user of a  sketc=
h,
>      you see everything rather than being able to see higher level
>      structure.
>
>
>      GSP does have a useful set of additions - buttons which allow the
>      producer to place buttons on the screen which do things - eg hide =
or
>      show a set of objects (this can help with the scripts issue above)=
,
>      or animate a point or all sorts of things. This is powerful as a w=
ay
>      of producing a sketch which is easily manipulable without needing =
to
>      know how to use GSP or any geometry!
>      Cabri can do all these things (almost), but the producer
>      needs to use
>      some slightly clever geometrical constructions so that sliding a
>      point along a segment 'switches' a construction on and off.
>
>      Finally, GSP on a Mac can save an animated sketch as a Quicktime
>      movie - clever and nice, self contained. Cabri I think can be
>      persuaded to do this using 3rd party software (Cameraman?)
>
>      Clearly, I think that Cabri is much the superior and I use both. W=
e
>      have a site licence for Cabri of course!
>
>      Download the demos from the websites -
>      http://www.cabri.net
>      http://www.keypress.com
>
>      look at the forum (URL above) discussion lists you can
>      search their archives.
>      Use the demos to look a the ATM Active Geometry software, but don'=
t
>      be misled by these - I think that Cabri/GSp are precisely the wron=
g
>      media to produce such files - they should have been programmed.
>      There are many websites with examples of Cabri and GSP figures to
>      visit, including ours here,
>
>
>      I hope some of the above helps - I have just splurged stuff,
>      I'm afraid, Peter!
>
>
>      cheers
>      --
>      Dave
>      Dave Wilson  (D.Wilson@mmu.ac.uk     A letter always reaches its
>      destination                 Dave@zizek.demon.co.uk)
>          Lacan
>      http://s13a.math.aca.mmu.ac.uk
>
>
>
>
>
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